AP champs always getting nerfed (except annie of course)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
Good points. I'm not saying mages should win, but they should at least stand a chance at surviving long enough for a team member to come to their aid. In most cases they are SO squishy they die in seconds if the AD champ gets close enough. Even a ranged AD champ, because Attack Damage itself is much stronger than Ability Power, when really they should be on the same level damage-wise, just in different ways... 1 point of AD and 1 point of AP should be equal all things even (no armor, no magic resist etc...) The way this game is built it seems 2 points of AD are equal to 1 point of AP. This is the point I am trying to make.
If the mage gets ANY kind of tankiness, even a single hybrid AP/survivability item... they DO stand a good chance at living long enough for a teammate to come to their aid. If you're so squishy that you are dying consistently in a second or two to any one champ, it's because there is something wrong with your build.

The unavoidable damage you deal with in every fight, and the champs that jump on you and execute you, are almost all burst damage... That's what those items are for, saving you from burst damage... they even make them extra-efficient on stats or slather incredible amounts of utility all over them, and people STILL don't get them, thinking that glass cannon is better.

Just look at your death statistics when you die... did your death include one person doing well over half your life with one type of damage? then there is a good chance that a single item with resistance to that type of damage would have saved your ass, and WILL save your ass over and over in future fights. If that champ has a lot of burst damage, that one item can even make them basically ignorable in a lot of team fights, since if their burst doesn't kill you or get you really low, you typically get to stick around the fight a LOT longer, with plenty of time to get all your spells off, while they basically wasted the major part of their damage and now were useless in that fight because by the time their cooldowns come back up, its pretty much over.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Galifrey

Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungboy View Post
I looked. As Leblanc you are building a void staff before anything else in games against real players. That is not good at all. There is no point building spell pen if you have too low AP for the spell pen to be effective.
Wrong again. I never build void staff first. I will usually get void staff later if I need spell pen. Just because an item is in the first slot does not mean that I built that item first. For items that have active abilities I move them to slots 3 and 4 because that is what is easiest for me.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Galifrey

Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolnemesis View Post
If the mage gets ANY kind of tankiness, even a single hybrid AP/survivability item... they DO stand a good chance at living long enough for a teammate to come to their aid. If you're so squishy that you are dying consistently in a second or two to any one champ, it's because there is something wrong with your build.

The unavoidable damage you deal with in every fight, and the champs that jump on you and execute you, are almost all burst damage... That's what those items are for, saving you from burst damage... they even make them extra-efficient on stats or slather incredible amounts of utility all over them, and people STILL don't get them, thinking that glass cannon is better.

Just look at your death statistics when you die... did your death include one person doing well over half your life with one type of damage? then there is a good chance that a single cheap resistance item to that type of damage would have saved your ass, and WILL save your ass over and over in future fights. If that champ has a lot of burst damage, that one item can even make them basically ignorable in a lot of team fights, since if their burst doesn't kill you or get you really low, you typically get to stick around the fight a LOT longer, with plenty of time to get all your spells off, while they basically blew the major part of their damage and are now basically useless in that fight until their major cooldowns come back up, by which time you and your team have already had a very good chance to kill them and their team.
I don't neccessarily agree with everything you say, but I do appreciate that you can have an intelligent debate / discussion without resorting to petty insults and character attacks. This game needs more players that can do that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

08-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
I don't neccessarily agree with everything you say, but I do appreciate that you can have an intelligent debate / discussion without resorting to petty insults and character attacks. This game needs more players that can do that.
Thanks... and don't get me wrong, you don't need to build tanky, you are a damage dealer, it's just to deal with a set amount of burst from champs you find that are killing you a lot, because for the most part burst is hard to avoid. The stronger burst has long cooldowns, however, and the champs that use it are typically counting on killing you with it, because after they blow it all they can do is sit on their thumbs basically, doing little to no damage until their good cooldown comes back up, while being very vulnerable the whole time to cc and the rest of your team. An item saving you from a big chunk of their burst basically turns the fight into a 4v5... That's why one of those hybrid survivability items is usually good for any mage, but you wouldn't want more than one survivability item most games, just pick up an item against whatever is the biggest threat to you in that game.

In the case of carries who do very consistent damage, tanking up is not going to help you really, although one item with armor will still give your team a little more time to help you if that carry gets on you a lot, especially if that item is Zhonya's Hourglass. To deal with carries, you really want to kill them as quickly as possible and avoid/disrupt their damage; luckily a carry's damage is a lot more predictable and easier to avoid than burst champs, and they tend to be easier to deal with using cc and easier to outrange with abilities.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Afirias

Senior Member

08-13-2012

There are a ton of tanky builds for AP that work great. My personal favorite is RoA, Ionia Boots, Rylai's, Voidstaff, Rabadons, (6th item is situational. Zhonyas/Athene's/BV/GA) gives you normally around 3k+ hp 500-650 AP. With the current game mechanics if an AP can get in kill the RADC and do some damage to other enemies they have done their job fine. If they live to continue fighting that's even better but that is all up to the team.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gabrielc4000

Junior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
I always love how whenever an AP champ is released that can stand toe to toe with an AD champ they automatically nerf them (i.e. Zyra.) Oh Zyra can actually stand up to a Xin and live? NERF!!! This game is so pathetically overbalanced for AD champs it's a joke. AP champs should have at least a LITTLE chance to stand up to a pure AD champion. Sure you can build armor but at the expense of ANY damage you may do. It's frustrating and irritating as someone who likes Mage characters. Think about it if this was real life... Which would hurt worse? A knife or a giant fire ball to the face? I'm thinking the fire ball to the face would probably do more damage.
While i would theoretically agree that a fire ball in the face should do more damage than a knife look at it this way. A mage is like 3 bazookas going off at the same time, if the target is still living the bazookas need time to reload. An AD person is like dual wielding machine guns, they can just keep shooting and shooting and shooting. Also you are stupid if you think 1. an ap person cant take an AD person on and 2. if you think building defense is a bad idea.
1. As proof let me tell you a true story. I was a 3/7/12 Heimerdinger with about a maximum of 1.5k hp. A 13/2/3 DARIUS, you know the one with the grab and the TRUE DMG, came and he had 350 ad and about 3.7k hp. I chased him off and killed two of his allies who came to kill me when i had 400 hp. Obviously if the squishiest person in the game can take 3 on that include one of the most dangerous ads in the game, you must be wrong.
2. Building defense is an EXCELLENT idea with any AP person. This does not mean soul shroud or thornmail or strict defense items. But it does mean that your final build should always include for durabilities sake; Zhonyas hourglass, Abyssal Scepter and Rylais Crystal Scepter. This gives you armor, magic resist, hp and a fair amount of offensive potential and the ability to escape the faster AD people by hitting them with abilities and the automatic slow from the Crystal Scepter
3. Does anyone know how to become a Senior member from a Junior member


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
Yeah sometimes there are generally OP champs released, but most of the time it's simple people haven't figured out how to counter them yet. Still they whine "ooooh they are so OP!!!" instead of playing a few matches against them and figuring out their weaknesses. Zyra is only OP if someone is stupid enough to stand between her seeds and get caught in her plants. Just step on the ****ed seeds and she doesn't do much. Usually when riot keeps tweaking champs they end up ruining them (i.e. eve... She's pretty much useless now, and her stealth passive is a huge joke...).

Interesting, I saw eve on a winning team in the WC... guess pros don't think she is so useless.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Evolnemesis

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielc4000 View Post
While i would theoretically agree that a fire ball in the face should do more damage than a knife look at it this way. A mage is like 3 bazookas going off at the same time, if the target is still living the bazookas need time to reload. An AD person is like dual wielding machine guns, they can just keep shooting and shooting and shooting. Also you are stupid if you think 1. an ap person cant take an AD person on and 2. if you think building defense is a bad idea.
1. As proof let me tell you a true story. I was a 3/7/12 Heimerdinger with about a maximum of 1.5k hp. A 13/2/3 DARIUS, you know the one with the grab and the TRUE DMG, came and he had 350 ad and about 3.7k hp. I chased him off and killed two of his allies who came to kill me when i had 400 hp. Obviously if the squishiest person in the game can take 3 on that include one of the most dangerous ads in the game, you must be wrong.
2. Building defense is an EXCELLENT idea with any AP person. This does not mean soul shroud or thornmail or strict defense items. But it does mean that your final build should always include for durabilities sake; Zhonyas hourglass, Abyssal Scepter and Rylais Crystal Scepter. This gives you armor, magic resist, hp and a fair amount of offensive potential and the ability to escape the faster AD people by hitting them with abilities and the automatic slow from the Crystal Scepter
3. Does anyone know how to become a Senior member from a Junior member
The answer to 3 is I think it just depends on how many posts/replies you make on the forums.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galifrey View Post
So get 10 people of equal skill, have one team pick all AP and one pick all AD and see which one wins. I'm pretty positive it will be the all AD by a landslide. The only hope an AP team would have is if the all AD team sucked. Malzahars ult pins him in place, move an inch and it's become useless. If there is a second enemy near by he is dead. I've mentioned that Leblanc and Annie are actual mages that they have left alone and are still good, yet those two seem to be the ones people keep bringing up, which doesn't really disprove my point. And to the moron who tried to insult me about my Leblanc build, I'd you took the time to ACTUALLY look at my match history you would see my Leblanc matches are generally AI games. I've been experimenting with my builds, but thanks for your hateful advice. I love how you address me as if I'm attacking you personally when im making a general comment about the game which is that the game generally favors AD champions, which is true. The game is pathetically overbalanced in favor of AD champions, argue with me all you want, but like I said, a match with all AP on one side and all AD on the other would fall in favor of the AD side almost every time, unless the AD team absolutely sucked.
So I take Soraka/Vlad bottom, Ryze top, Diana or Amumu in the jungle, and whatever random mage in the middle.

You know how hard this would roll ANY AD team you can possibly think of? So hard their eyes would melt and their shadows would be burnt into the concrete behind them, and it would be almost as fast as a nuclear explosion as well.

The thing here is, the AP champions come with high levels of CC in general, and much better trades for the first 2/3-3/4 of the game as well, the AD champs literally WOULD NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO CS (And quite possibly not even get experience depending on the match up) after about 1-2 trades and would be ZONED INTO OBLIVION, followed by losing their first line of turrets. Next the APs would begin roaming with their now advantages of:

A: Actually getting CS.
B: Guaranteed XP without needing the AP to be pretty poor against them in general.
C: First line of towers = dead.
D: Ultra long range and massive AoE and CC locking.
E: Probably being able to "turret dive" anyone easily at this point by virtue of:
#1: Having about 5x as much gold as them.
#2: Having about 2-3x as much XP as them.
#3: Consequently having vastly better items and leveled stats as well as possibly being able to CC the enemy out from under the turret.

The game would probably be over in about 15 minutes flat. Not even joking.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpxpx View Post
op has obviously never seen someone play full ap on cho. One could say that it gets rather.....cho'verpowered.
oh my god!!! It's a mage you cannot out-bruise!!!

What is this i don't even.........