Published my Fiddlesticks guide

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Slaydis

Member

08-08-2012

Hey guys!

Recently published my Fiddlesticks guide.

You may wanna read it or even vote if you like it?

I tried a different way on Fiddlesticks and it works great, my videos and explanations can prove it.

Have fun reading and watching the videos.

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...h-guide-234139

Slaydis-


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XCodes

Senior Member

08-08-2012

A lot of things wrong, here.

Summoners: Flash/Ignite is standard, but there are other viable spells, too:

1) Promote: Fiddlesticks is a **** pusher, even with his E. Promote can help you get your lane pushed up so you can roam, or at least prevent your lane opponent from roaming.

2) Exhaust: You say you need to AA, which is false. You can use Exhaust -> Drain on the other champ and it turns out almost like heal-baiting.

Masteries:

1) +3 mana regen isn't that useful on an AP Mid. You're going to get blue buff, so don't bother with this. Just get Swiftness.

2) Transumtation is just a bad mastery in the Utility tree. Going pure offense you can just do 3% more damage to make your existing drains 3% better instead of investing in this mastery.

3) Awareness is just bad. Yes, more experience is nice, but you're only getting a slight advantage in small windows with this level of experience bonus. If you're ahead with Awareness, then you'd probably have been ahead without Awareness, too. If you're behind with Awareness, then you'd definitely have been behind without Awareness, too.

Yes, Intelligence and Mastermind are nice masteries, but the level of investment in the otherwise bad Utility tree required to get them is too much to make them worthwhile. 21/0/9 is just so much better on AP mids.

Items:

1) D Ring is better on Fiddle than other AP's as a starting item, but in-lane I still don't think it's ever the best option. Boots + 3 (blues, in Fiddle's case) or Mantle + 2 give better early survivability in-lane.

2) Yes, there's always the problem of being super-squishy as Fiddle when you Crowstorm into a crowd, but RoA isn't the solution to that problem. First off, Fiddle needs to maximize his damage since his Crowstorm is the big thing he brings to a teamfight. Catalyst also isn't that amazing on Fiddle because he has such amazing HP sustain already. Once he starts getting blue buffs, he can just stay in-lane forever. It's far better to just rush D.Cap or Zhonya in my opinion.

3) Drain already gives incredible sustain, the extra spellvamp is not nearly as helpful as Zhonya for your ult. D.Cap and Zhonya should be your first two major items, because they just really make Fiddle.

On Jungling:

Fiddle is an under-appreciated jungler, particularly if you're concerned about counter-jungling. If Fiddle runs into an enemy jungler in his own jungle, that jungler will almost certainly die every single time. In any case, he's certainly better in the jungle than he is as an AP Mid, since the only thing he's really all that good at in Mid is roaming and ganking: he doesn't push well, doesn't last-hit well, and doesn't harass well, and he gets completely shut-down by Ignite, which is the second-most-popular summoner in Mid.


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Slaydis

Member

08-08-2012

Hi!
Thanks for your effort commenting this.
Here is my respond for the things you wrote.

Promote can help, that is true. However, i ve just seen trolls using Promote, its overall not viable at all, thats y people dont bring it. Taking down the tower is not that important, because if you win through Kills and Farming, your team will help you with the tower.

Exhaust+Drain may work, but my guide focuses on not skilling drain 1st. Thats the idea behind that.

Masteries: I wrote in my guide that it is nothing wrong to go 21/0/9. I like 9/0/21 more and i am successfull with it.

Items: I tried other items but it doesnt work. You mention Drain again, and i tell you again, my guide DOES NOT FOCUS on leveling drain.

Jungling: It is not true that fiddle owns the jungle. If you claim that u never jungled with him or never faced the real popular jungler like udyr or lee sin.

Overall opinion:

You are saying that a lot of things are WRONG here. It is weird that i can prove with many videos on LOLReplay (Slaydis) that my guide works.
I even have about 60% win rate with fiddle in ranked (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/2...7#ranked-stats) its 5% up and down. It is nothing that is GREAT but it is not bad too, considering that a lot of people dont play Fiddle in ranked, even at low elo, cause he isnt viable in their opinions.
You on the other hand have played according to the statistics less games than i (609 wins me vs 82 wins you) + you dont play ranked at all, thats a big difference. (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/31704447#profile) = your statistics.

So, dont be angry, but it sounds to me that you are unexperienced. I can prove by videos in and outside the guide that it is working, so saying it is WRONG, like u did, is something i cant take serious.

If on the other hand other things work better for you and you have success, it is great and i ll try it out, but dont say it is WRONG.

Slaydis-


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-08-2012

It's odd to see a Fiddlesticks build without cooldown reduction in items or runes. I think DFG is a must for Fid.


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Slaydis

Member

08-08-2012

Can you explain that why CDR is a must on Fiddle?

What distinguishes Fiddle from other Casters that he needs it, cause i dont need it beyond the masteries, either in laning nor in Teamfights. At mid game or late game, my ult is always ready. It is hardly on CD. Watch the video after the spotlight in my guide and look at the time and the kills, it is hardly possible to force more fights and therefor a CDR.
On the othe rhand, Fiddle doesnt need much mana if you follow my guide, however, i would run out of it if i would spam my spells a lot, so y CDR?

I would like to here why u think it is good, i will maybe give it a try.

Slaydis-


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XCodes

Senior Member

08-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaydis View Post
Promote can help, that is true. However, i ve just seen trolls using Promote, its overall not viable at all, thats y people dont bring it. Taking down the tower is not that important, because if you win through Kills and Farming, your team will help you with the tower.
Wrong. The game objective is to break the enemy nexus. It's impossible to win the game through kills and farming. I cite that 11/6/11 game in your match history.

Quote:
Items: I tried other items but it doesnt work. You mention Drain again, and i tell you again, my guide DOES NOT FOCUS on leveling drain.
I also mention Crowstorm. Do you not level Crowstorm? Drain is fantastic lane sustain even at rank 1. You rank it for better damage vs. other champs. In any case, WotA is not a good item at all on Fiddlesticks, and Rod of Ages doesn't at all solve the problem of Fiddle getting instagibbed/knocked away/CC'd when he ults onto the enemy team. Zhonya costs about the same as RoA and gives you full benefits immediately after purchase, and it's the actual solution to your problems with getting your Crowstorm interrupted.

Quote:
Jungling: It is not true that fiddle owns the jungle. If you claim that u never jungled with him or never faced the real popular jungler like udyr or lee sin.
He's better in the jungle than he is in the lane for the reasons I pointed out above.

Quote:
I even have about 60% win rate with fiddle in ranked (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/2...7#ranked-stats) its 5% up and down. It is nothing that is GREAT but it is not bad too, considering that a lot of people dont play Fiddle in ranked, even at low elo, cause he isnt viable in their opinions.
57.5% isn't about 60%. Also, your sample size is really small (~70 games).

Quote:
You on the other hand have played according to the statistics less games than i (609 wins me vs 82 wins you) + you dont play ranked at all, thats a big difference. (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/31704447#profile) = your statistics.
Oh, you're so proud of 600 wins and 1300 ELO.

Quote:
So, dont be angry, but it sounds to me that you are unexperienced. I can prove by videos in and outside the guide that it is working, so saying it is WRONG, like u did, is something i cant take serious.

If on the other hand other things work better for you and you have success, it is great and i ll try it out, but dont say it is WRONG.
Why would I be angry? You put together videos of your wins, right? What happened to the videos of your losses? Why did you lose those games? Were you getting bursted down by LeBlanc? Out-harassed by Kassadin? Pushed under turret by TF or Mordekaiser?

The fact that you won game X using build Y doesn't mean Y is a good build. In the current meta, games are usually decided by either a decisive teamfight or a series of teamfights. What happened in those teamfights that caused you to either do a lot of damage with your Crowstorm + CC? What happened in those teamfights that nullified your existence?


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Kirielis

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Senior Member

08-08-2012

point by point as i scroll down your guide.

^what xcodes said about exhaust. it's useful. ghost also lets you chase with crowstorm. have you ever built reverie on fid*, or had your support use it in range of you? it's scary.

on the subject of your fear, in the skills section, second point. if veigar doesn't turn around and 100-0 you anyway he's a bad veigar. a good player will know the limits of his champion and his opponent and act accordingly. don't rely on panic. it's free damage sure but that's all it is.

regarding drain, i find that it makes you deceptively tanky. provided they don't interrupt the channel. and why do you not even have any mention of channel interrupters. you will win every single trade you make if you make it with a leveled drain against a champion who can't interrupt you.

why do you not recommend landing silence on the champion first, because the situation described doesn't happen very often. the other thing is that it'll push the lane. it will. so they get to freeze it wherever they like. if you're vs a mid of the push variety, say morgana, you can't push back because it isn't actually a pushing tool. you can tank the creep wave and freeze it, with drain, but that locks you into the lane while your opponent runs off to gank, which was the entire point of picking a hard pusher into mid.

no smart mid stays in lane for level 6 burst. you will never face an opponent who is below half hp and lets you combo them from a bush. actually scratch that. you meet those guys in 1.1k and how they made 1.1k i have no idea. any competent opponent will know what you're trying, spam his spells on creeps while not missing cs, and go b while you run back to deal with your tower. if you really want to kill him, walk out to his wraiths and do it from there.

you recommend a d-ring start. while it's more acceptable on fid than on a lot of mid laners, if i see one in mid with a d-ring that's my cue to step on him. hard. same applies to every other mid laner. d-ring is an item you take if you're ziggs and they're kata and they can't hurt you without taking 3x the damage in trade until level 6, so even with the extra hp from pots they come out behind.

if you're talking about survivability, okay, roa. it's even viable to delay your hourglass to lategame if you're picking up an early hp item. in some circumstances. okay. but where then is the mention of the other major hp item for apcs? i do hope you're not completely useless, because if you don't even know it you aren't qualified to write any sort of guide that will be read. but then mobafire in general tends to have that kind of guide top rated, so w/e.

i have a problem with you not liking void staff. my adc's qss/bv say hi. assuming they aren't sniping you from outside ult range.

talon not completely zoning and/or getting fed in a fiddlesticks lane, that's a new one. say hi to 1.3k for me please, where the talons have no clue how to play. same goes for just about every other lane matchup you listed.

mid is not always squishy. if i have a galio teammate in mid i would be more than happy to pick a squishy jungler. leona and maokai are two of the most devastating mids played well and neither of them is particularly squishy. gragas is most often seen mid. chogath can mid fine. and all five of the above named can be built for straight up tanking if the situation really calls for it. then too you're ignoring that squishy junglers actually work even if there's only a tanky top and tanky-ish support. that's plenty enough frontline for anyone. that argument is invalid.

player statistics mean nothing. i think i'm a very good mid ad janna when i play her on her free week. after all i've won 5 out of 6 games i've played as her, and the last was a 3v5. but you know what, considering i've only actually played mid ad janna in 800 elo games, does that make it a very good play style for janna?

all in all, i would get better, more accurate, more detailed information on mid fiddlesticks from tekshi's guide on solomid and he hasn't updated that for three months now and it's for solo top fiddlesticks.

*it's my second big item playing supportsticks, and yes i play supportsticks, problem?

**if you're going to try to discredit me by picking up player stats from wherever, let me pre-empt that by saying: you're only making ad hominem attacks because you can't think of good, logical reasons why i'm wrong and you're right nor can you substantiate your own point of view by empirical evidence. seriously, you just tried that on xcodes. who is nice and all (we frequent the same chat room) but both sides of the argument you guys are holding are missing crucial information. like the blue buff. and team comps. and some of the points are just plain wrong too. on both sides, again. so for the love of all that is good (and for your guide as well) just take the points and run with it without making ad hominem attacks. no offense intended to xcodes by the way.


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Slaydis

Member

08-08-2012

Hi!

The opinions and ideas are pretty divided here, and that is okay. If you think my guide doesnt work or it is bad, i respect that, but you are missing a chance to be successful.

There are some arguments which i will mention NOW and i will ignore it in the next responses because i dont understand why i should repeat myself over and over again:

Quote:
Why would I be angry? You put together videos of your wins, right? What happened to the videos of your losses? Why did you lose those games? Were you getting bursted down by LeBlanc? Out-harassed by Kassadin? Pushed under turret by TF or Mordekaiser?
I said that LB is a tough opponent and you should not pick Fiddle against her. I am aware that Fiddlesticks has his weakness. So you are telling me that my idea doesnt work cause Fiddle is bad vs LB. I MENTIONED THAT ALREADY IN MY GUIDE. READ BEFORE YOU CRITICES.

Quote:
considering i've only actually played mid ad janna in 800 elo games, does that make it a very good play style for janna?
No it doesnt, that s why i ALREADY said:
Quote:
I even have about 60% win rate with fiddle in ranked (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/2...7#ranked-stats) its 5% up and down. It is nothing that is GREAT but it is not bad too, considering that a lot of people dont play Fiddle in ranked, even at low elo, cause he isnt viable in their opinions.
I already mentioned that i know that this is not the best stat ever and you still keep criticizing it....

Quote:
i have a problem with you not liking void staff. my adc's qss/bv say hi. assuming they aren't sniping you from outside ult range.
I said: I DONT LIKE IT. I ALSO SAID I WOULD BUY IT DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH MR THE ENEMY has.

PLZ try reading my posts or my guide before you start criticizing something what i already explained.

Slaydis


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XCodes

Senior Member

08-09-2012

First, no offense taken. Honestly, I was never seriously considering ever running Promote Fiddle mid, but personally I have a hell of a time last-hitting and clearing with him, and Promote helps a bit with both of those things. Since the "bugfix" in one of the recent patches, I think playing around with improved Promote is worth looking into (but not on Fiddle. IMO, Fiddle just doesn't belong mid).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaydis View Post
I said that LB is a tough opponent and you should not pick Fiddle against her. I am aware that Fiddlesticks has his weakness. So you are telling me that my idea doesnt work cause Fiddle is bad vs LB. I MENTIONED THAT ALREADY IN MY GUIDE. READ BEFORE YOU CRITICES.
I brought them up specifically because you had them listed in your guide. Note, however, that you only had them *listed*, there was no details given as to why you want to avoid them, or potential alterations to your strategy if you had to lane against them (read: you get counter-picked).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaydis View Post
No it doesnt, that s why i ALREADY said:
I already mentioned that i know that this is not the best stat ever and you still keep criticizing it...
Immediately after saying it's not the best ever, you still used it to try and pull rank and discredit me. It's like a 9-year-old calling an 8-year-old a little kid, and you bet I'm going to call you on it.


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Slaydis

Member

08-09-2012

Hi again!

Quote:
About Difficulty

Easy: This means you should not have any problems with them, most because you know how to use your Dark Wind and therefor you have a higher range. If you of course push and you are being ganked, well than you just suicided.

Medium: These enemies can't really burst you down. However, they can harass pretty good. If you know their abilities and if you can dodge it, they should not make much trouble. The pushers can be difficult to beat as you will have trouble do farm well. But being pushed also opens opportunities for ally ganks.

Hard: These can burst you down very easily. I do not recommend to play against them. If you have to, try to push a bit if you can and gank bot and top.
After that explanation in my guide i listed LB under "Hard". As you can see there IS an explanation and not only a "list". AND I said to push a bit, cause LB is a bad pusher and to gank. Thats the alternative strategy. You see i explained it. Have you maybe overseen it?
I know that it is not a strategy how to kill her, if that would be possible, than you have to master a champ and ALWAYS win, thanks to the balance, there is always a counter, even if you are the best player, there are champs who can shut you down.

Quote:
Immediately after saying it's not the best ever, you still used it to try and pull rank and discredit me. It's like a 9-year-old calling an 8-year-old a little kid, and you bet I'm going to call you on it.
True. However, 1300 Elo and NO ELO are a big difference. I know that i am still a kid, with your compare, but i would rather say that a 15-year old kid tells a 9-year old kid that he is kid.
Keep in mind that not only the Elo itself is important, cause u can reach 1300 easy if you have 5 or 6 wins in a row. Play about 100 Elo games and than compare your elo, with others.

I dont want to offend you too, because your critics show me if my arguments and my guide explanations are sustainable or not.
I just don't like that you talk my 1300 Elo down and you have made no experiance at it at all. I said that 1300 is not that great, because I dont want to overrate myself. I know there is a big gap til top, but there is also a big gap til bottom.

Slaydis-