[AD Caster Item] Xypherous's Avalanche - Please Help Me Refine This Idea!

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Dead Future

Senior Member

07-30-2012

And no, it's not one of those half-ounce-brain items that uses The Brutalizer!

You know how Rampage gets that cooldown buff for being cast, right?

Well, what if we made that into an item...catered to AD burst casters? This isn't just some, "Oh, we're gonna reduce every spell cooldown by a bunch, you're so creative /sarcasm," it's really tailored to burst casters. Like, if you're not using it right, it does nothing for you.

Because I'm having a hard time thinking of the type of stats this should be attached to for game health and balance, I'll just tell you the UNIQUE Passive the item is going to be based off of.

I think the name of the item is awesome and it includes the name of an awesome Rioter. Awesome.

  • UNIQUE Passive: On cast, you gain a stack of Avalanche, reducing the cooldown of your next ability cast by 1 second. This effect can stack indefinitely, but will not reduce the cooldown of any ability to less than 2 seconds. Stacks last .5 seconds.
  • While making some of the items below, this passive as a selling point on an item became more of an extra utility than the sole reason why you'd buy the item. Please discuss the possible results of each Avalanche stack reducing cooldowns by 2 seconds.

You have no idea how many times I had to change that just to maintain the intended design without making it an autopurchase for Ryze. Do you know how much it hurts to think you have thought of something great, and then realize one champion can just go QWEQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ and completely ruin any chances you'd ever have at getting the idea under the consideration of Riot? In the end, the "will not reduce to less than 2 seconds" clause saved me, because it wasn't intended for repeat ability combos - it was intended to help shave some time off of innately longer cooldown abilities in a Fighter/Assassin combo.

So, hooray for that.

Possible builds: (and remember, it's about the items that it builds from a lot more than the suggested stats, so don't **** your pants if you disagree with any particular item stats - in fact, it would be nice to get a suggestion on what you think it should be instead)
  • Xypherous's Avalanche (Type I)
    • Phage + BF Sword + 900G = 3865G
      • Builds from a prominent Fighter item (Phage) with decent stats and utility into a damage-oriented item with large gold gaps (BF Sword & recipe) that reward only a very specific champion class.
    • +300 Health
    • +100 Attack Damage
    • Unmodified Phage passive
  • Xypherous's Avalanche (Type II)
    • Pickaxe + Pickaxe + 400G = 2250G
      • Raw AD from a mid-tier cost item, twice.
    • +60 Attack Damage
  • Xypherous's Avalanche (Type III)
    • BF Sword + Pickaxe + Long Sword + 400G = 3390G
      • Raw AD from each basic AD item. Looks boring and stupid.
    • +100 Attack Damage
  • Submit your own ideas for this list! (because I'm lazy and/or uncreative right now) I won't add anything that builds from The Brutalizer.


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Yaomon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Kat will like this a lot.


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Megames1

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaomon View Post
Kat will like this a lot.
I think just her passive is enough.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Downvoted for insulting other item ideas while claiming yours is better.

Also; .5 second stack duration screws over 95%+ of the population, for varying reasons (skill, delay, etc.). There are days when I get .5 second delay constant. I would literally never be able to use the item. Oh, and this is ignoring that it would be an instant buy for Olaf, and all CDR items would then be skipped for him. Meaning my build on Olaf would become easier, stronger and more versatile.


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Fierce Summoner

Senior Member

07-30-2012

OP


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Dead Future

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaomon View Post
Kat will like this a lot.
QWER = 1 second off of W, 2 seconds off of E, 3 seconds off of R (or multiples of those numbers, given we decide as a whole that the passive is too weak).

Definitely not broken. Her passive is much stronger. I highly doubt you'll end up in a button mashing spree that makes it over 5 stacks, ever. Things like that are reserved for certain champions like Akali in theory, but you can't even use R alone to keep this effect going, so good luck.

Xypherous's Avalanche is an item for Fighters and Assassins that gain power from AD and already build heavily into CDR. The way the passive works enables it to function fully on top of the benefits of CDR (because it takes time off of the top when casting spells almost simultaneously; it doesn't effect 'base CDR', it literally acts as if more time has passed right away when casting spells one after another in tight combinations).

That said, this would be an item for smart-casters (something people are already aware of that increases power without directly effecting anything but how hotkeys react).


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Dead Future

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Downvoted for insulting other item ideas while claiming yours is better.

Also; .5 second stack duration screws over 95%+ of the population, for varying reasons (skill, delay, etc.). There are days when I get .5 second delay constant. I would literally never be able to use the item. Oh, and this is ignoring that it would be an instant buy for Olaf, and all CDR items would then be skipped for him. Meaning my build on Olaf would become easier, stronger and more versatile.
Excuse me for not sitting around suggesting items like "Sunfire Cape but with MR", or "MR Thornmail", or "X Item that uses The Brutalizer and makes sure to break just about every stat I can fit on it while disregarding the 700 other posts with similar items with similar stats that have been opposed as unhealthy to the game," or something like that.

So, completely disregarding the fact that the UNIQUE Passive is the only thing that is for sure on the item, and the mechanics of which are in question and not exactly the direct effects, you think that a champion that people already call each other bad for when they don't stack health and max E can disregard a stat as powerful as CDR (bringing Q to 4.8 seconds instead of 8, W to 7.2 seconds instead of 12, E to 3 seconds instead of 5, and R to 60 seconds instead of 100) for the ability to go WEQR at the very most and get 1 second off of E, 2 seconds off of Q, and 3 seconds off of R?

It sounds like you, kind sir, either completely miss the point of the item or are just trying to make up reasons to be angry rather than deal with your personal problems. I won't go into detail again just because you refuse to understand something that is written and placed before you in black and white.

Oh, and the .5 second stack duration is pretty much the only thing keeping it doing what it does instead of creating actually broken synergies.

Have a nice day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Summoner View Post
OP
Single greatest contribution to the forums since the dawn of man.


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LimitlessChaos

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Future View Post
And no, it's not one of those half-ounce-brain items that uses The Brutalizer!

You know how Rampage gets that cooldown buff for being cast, right?

Well, what if we made that into an item...catered to AD burst casters? This isn't just some, "Oh, we're gonna reduce every spell cooldown by a bunch, you're so creative /sarcasm," it's really tailored to burst casters. Like, if you're not using it right, it does nothing for you.

Because I'm having a hard time thinking of the type of stats this should be attached to for game health and balance, I'll just tell you the UNIQUE Passive the item is going to be based off of.

I think the name of the item is awesome and it includes the name of an awesome Rioter. Awesome.
  • UNIQUE Passive: On cast, you gain a stack of Avalanche, reducing the cooldown of your next ability cast by 1 second. This effect can stack indefinitely, but will not reduce the cooldown of any ability to less than 2 seconds. Stacks last .5 seconds.
  • While making some of the items below, this passive as a selling point on an item became more of an extra utility than the sole reason why you'd buy the item. Please discuss the possible results of each Avalanche stack reducing cooldowns by 2 seconds.

You have no idea how many times I had to change that just to maintain the intended design without making it an autopurchase for Ryze. Do you know how much it hurts to think you have thought of something great, and then realize one champion can just go QWEQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ and completely ruin any chances you'd ever have at getting the idea under the consideration of Riot? In the end, the "will not reduce to less than 2 seconds" clause saved me, because it wasn't intended for repeat ability combos - it was intended to help shave some time off of innately longer cooldown abilities in a Fighter/Assassin combo.

So, hooray for that.[/LIST]
Positive points:

I definitely agree with you that this item needs to happen in SOME form.

I'm not especially against Brutalizer builds but at this point, I want something that will bloody-well work and I really don't care if Brutalizer is not part of it.

The name is very fitting, considering Xypherous' wonderful contributions to the Fighter class (I would also argue that Coronach is a great candidate for a namesake)

My first concern on reading your idea was immediately addressed when I got to the "will not reduce below two seconds" I think that's dead-on; as it still presents powerful stats for characters who have some mechanic like that (Hecarim, for example, would probably still buy this item because he'd get a lot of use out of it and his other spells have especially long cooldowns; my only worry would be the power of this item in Skarner's claws as he'd see some insane ability use from Q spam and this unique+his own passive as he could at least get a few blocks out of the .5 period.)

At any rate, your unique passive plan is pretty strong I think; it's not too ridiculous and it'd probably provide some great power for champions who need an item to scale a bit better.

The question I have is, what is the biggest problem these types of champions really face?

Is it that they don't all have annoyingly powerful early games and still fail to scale into end-game? Or is it that they just don't have an item that meshes with their kits quite so well as every other champion in the game?

I'm sort of lost on this issue as I've been very much in support of an "AD Caster" item since Riven's release; however, I've also read some compelling arguments about fighters simply not needing a "Fighter item" since it'd just make them scale into end-game better and they're not exactly supposed to do that since most of them have powerful early or mid-games and very few have weak early or mid games that also have a strong late game (Riven for example is pretty useful most of the game but still doesn't reach scary scaling like an AD carry can)

I guess I'm asking you, what's the goal of coming up with this item? Is it just to get a smarter, more tailored damage item for fighters or is this to solve the scaling problem that most of them face? I think the problem is that even a champion like Garen, who can destroy his lane opponent in the early game, just sees himself making VERY low contribution in longer games, which most tend to be anymore.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Future View Post
you think that a champion that people already call each other bad for when they don't stack health and max E can disregard a stat as powerful as CDR (bringing Q to 4.8 seconds instead of 8, W to 7.2 seconds instead of 12, E to 3 seconds instead of 5, and R to 60 seconds instead of 100) for the ability to go WEQR at the very most and get 1 second off of E, 2 seconds off of Q, and 3 seconds off of R?
Being the first person to focus CDR on Olaf;

I know exactly what I'm talking about. With CDR runes and some masteries, I'd be dropping the cooldown to ~6.6 seconds, which, if you subtract 4.5 seconds from, leaves you at 2.1. So .1 second cooldown.

Here is my old build, from a year ago.


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Dead Future

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Being the first person to focus CDR on Olaf;

I know exactly what I'm talking about. With CDR runes and some masteries, I'd be dropping the cooldown to ~6.6 seconds, which, if you subtract 4.5 seconds from, leaves you at 2.1. So .1 second cooldown.

Here is my old build, from a year ago.
I still don't think you understand.

First spell cast (gains no benefit at all) -> second spell cast (gains the bonus of 1 stack) -> third spell cast (gains the bonus of 2 stacks) -> fourth spell cast (gains the bonus of 3 stacks)

At no point can any of the spells cast have their cooldowns post-Avalanche reduced below 2 seconds (this stops low CD abuses, especially Ryze). To illustrate this further, look at the following information.

(40% CDR)
Overload - 2.1 seconds
Rune Prison - 8.4 seconds
Spell Flux - 8.4 seconds
Desperate Power - 30 seconds

Q (2.1) -> W (8.4 - 1, so 7.4) -> E (8.4 - 2, so 6.4) -> Q (2.1 - 3, cannot be lower than 2, so 2)
0 stacks -> 1 stack -> 2 stacks -> 3 stacks

I should not have to explain this when it's already stated in the original post.


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