New ELO point system

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King of Sin

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Senior Member

07-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezx View Post
Some things I have against this system:
Promotes kill stealing to gain more ELO. (which also promotes "HEY IM GONNA CHASE SO I CAN GET THAT EXTRA ELO WHILE THE REST OF MY TEAM DIES")
If you're doing bad, you can just d/c and lose 14 instead of 17 ELO.
Bottom lane is reliant on ADC and support. If one feeds giving the other side an advantage, that means both will end up with bad scores.
One lane can snowball (or even jungle) and completely screw over all other lanes resulting in bad scores for them too.
By putting a negative for surrendering, you make it so that people would rather either AFK (so pretty much just wasting their time) with the risk that they would die if they consistently lose team fights while still trying if the other team is too far ahead they will start losing more and more elo instead of cutting their losses and moving on to the next game.
If one person wins lane, but all other lanes lose and that person end up constantly dies in team fights, isn't it unfair to them that the the others couldn't pull their weight if they end up dying a lot to fed team tower diving.
Promotes winning teams to stay and farm the other team instead of killing nexus in order to maximize elo gain.
Kills aren't everything. You can get kills but still be behind in gold if you can't CS.
Assist gains still don't fix the problem of (Hey that guy gets kills and gains more ELO than me, so I should play something other than support so I can get ELO faster)
Jungle affects ALL lanes. If your jungle is terrible, but their jungle is good, gets kills, constantly harasses your lane, and tower dives, you're screwed. (aka Hi, I snowballed off a bad lane, so now I'm going to destroy your lane and constantly harass you because you're winning. Have fun losing elo because I got fed by your teammates)
Oh and "Hey I lost game before laning phase even ended because it was 20-5 by 13 minutes because of all the trolls I have. I did okay in my lane and went 3-3-0 but I should be punished and lose ELO because I have the same deaths as kills"
This is very good feed back, i like your pointers and will try to adjust some of the mechanics so that it will prevent these things. And while you are right that kills are not EVERYTHING i did add in turrets for points but i have left out CS because i feel that trolls (example: a master yi i played with was 2-14 and had 300 CS) will just farm and feed the other team. Also i find that if the other team is going to tower dive, a good player can usually take at least one down. The MAIN reason i made kills be worth less then deaths is because of what you point out yourself, Snowballs. These people will go 23-1 (i have my self from time to time) and they will get a ton of assists as well, this is why i put in a cap on ELO gain and loss (16) so that way even if you lose a game with a terrible score (2-14) you won't drop by 30 ELO in one game. As far as AFKing instead of surrendering i have also put in that it will be an automatic loss (plus extra) for AFKing. While you do make a valid point of "What can i do if they are fed and turret dive me?" my response to that is to group up, learn to focus, and try hard every game. You also mentioned that someone will chase and let their team die, if they do that, they will most likely die and still lose ELO or the other team will push turrets and win and then that person will lose ELO anyways.

As to winning teams wanting to farm, they can only farm so much before it is capped, and even with out this system i have seen team who will avoid killing the nexus and just sit at the fountain with a blitz farming anyways. I would also like to explain that a good player will be able to gauge how strong the other player is and if they should haul butt back to base to buy wards so they can farm with out it going from 1v1 to 5v1 etc. or if they should be safe because their team is doing their job and calling MIAs regardless of how poorly they are doing. It isn't the junglers job to ward for you.

As you put to view, jungle is a major roll! so if they do their job, why shouldn't they be rewarded? If they harass and do it well. Good job, here is a couple extra ELO. If they are doing badly, no ELO for you! With this system it will also force the jungler to be in lane instead of just staying in the jungle. (example: an olaf i was in a game with never ganked once and left the jungle 3 times simply to cover lane and he was 0-4-1 at the end of the game with 140 CS) I am trying to stop these people, or at least punish them, from not doing their job.

To surrendering i say, You never know how late game will end. I went for 56 minutes as akali with an AFK mundo on our team the other team had 60 kills we had 30. We didn't surrender, fought tooth and nail, kick and struggled and won with 4 people in a loosing game. Mostly its because the other team got cocky and thought they could just steam roll through us, but we took out their carries like a good team will. With my system i would have gained ELO for not surrendering and never giving up. so i will try to implement a system for AFKs so that it doesn't seem more appealing to AFK rather than surrender.

Thank you for the feed back!


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King of Sin

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Senior Member

07-19-2012

bump


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Parthonaxx

Senior Member

07-19-2012

So if I KS, and never die, even if i lose i can gain a sh*t ton of ELO!!!!!


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Ammy

Member

07-19-2012

Okay fundamentally this system isn't worthwhile. Why? It's based on KDR. This game isn't about KDR. This isn't call of dooty. This ain't no Halo. And it sure isn't any Modern Warfare. You don't play this game to get kills, or assists. Your focus isn't killing the enemy champions. It's just a means to accomplish your end. Having the enemy team dead sure as hell makes it easy to take turrets, but isn't necessary. I've been in games where even with constant posturing one team could take a turret without killing any of the champions on the other, but simply poking them out of defense.

Furthermore it will encourage the stupid idea that people should float around and just focus on killing and not pushing lanes to nexus. It doesn't actually encourage good gameplay.

It also doesn't factor for the badass moves of getting executed to avoid giving the enemy team a kill. Or when someone tanking turret is executed so team can secure it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndofDeepsleep View Post
The thing is if they are a good support they will be getting 3 assists every death! when i play taric, alistar, soraka, and blitz (my main supports) i usually end the game with something like 1-7-20 which is enough to counter out the deaths,
I'm going to be honest, I've gone 2-2-24 as Janna. But my team lost the game because my AD Carry didn't know what he was doing nor did she listen to me well enough.

I think K/ADR is a silly system and won't provide proper incentive. If you came up with another method of measuring maybe "bonus" or "penalized" elo we might be able to figure something out. But as this system is it'd simply serve to undermine the goal of the game, and encourage more dumb strategies. Besides if you have suicidal initiators nothing wrong with that if it ultimately results in a win.


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M0nkeyM4n

Senior Member

07-19-2012

I now support this because of the addition taking down towers helps raise elo. I am going to see ehat i can do to get riots attention on this subject.


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Hiatus Barren

Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parthonaxx View Post
So if I KS, and never die, even if i lose i can gain a sh*t ton of ELO!!!!!
theoretically, according to his rules, yes. say you're a vayne and you go 21-3-15, and you guys get all their towers down, but you guys still lose. with that kd, you actually gain the capped elo. and that amount does not include towers. This elo system could not work.


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laxjoh

Senior Member

08-04-2012

This ELO system might work with other games... but for instance, this ELO is very unfavoring of main supports. Also, this might raise a lot of in-game conflicts about KS. We already ahve bunch of immature people fighting in game over KS even though it was during a team fight as opposed to a support/tank stealing a kill from an ADC


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Skidochufada

Member

08-04-2012

ELO based one your K/D ratio is a bad idea. People focused on their K/D ratio is already a bad thing.


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AlphariusRising

Member

08-04-2012

You have to rename is, Elo is already something designed for chess, complete with maths.


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laxjoh

Senior Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphariusRising View Post
You have to rename is, Elo is already something designed for chess, complete with maths.
And it's a great/accurate point system for chess. But chess isn't 5v5 or 3v3. Regardless, I still like the current ELO system better than the one suggested. +1 for the effort and creativity but we need something more concrete, more accurate, and something less instigating within the team.