Katarina: STOP rushing Rylai's Crystal Sceptre...

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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-13-2012

1. Veigar
2. What?
3. Bouncing blade should only be used to pick up the minions in the back when you are maxing shunpo.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
1. Veigar
2. What?
3. Bouncing blade should only be used to pick up the minions in the back when you are maxing shunpo.
1) Rank 1 shunpo: 80 damage.
Rank 1 baleful strike: 80 damage. Veigar can also auto-attack you whilst you run back.
Baleful strike also scales better with levels than Shunpo damage-wise.

2) Junglers are champions who choose not to lane, but clear jungle camps to maximize the experience gained. An added advantage is that they can influence lanes by "ganks". This is when they leave the jungle, run into a lane and attempt to get a kill. At higher levels of play, you will see them very often. When you use Shunpo offensively, you're putting yourself RIGHT next to the ennemy laner. All their jungler has to do (especially if your ennemy laner has a hard cc, like Veigar) to guarantee mid lane winning and getting fed is babysit mid.

3) Any champion with a spell over 700 range can effectively freely harass/burst you whenever you try to to lasthit a melee creep with no retaliation from you. This includes A LOT of champions. Like Veigar after some levels.


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Tin¨viel

Member

07-13-2012

Katarina is a terrible champion. 99% of the people who play her are just bad players waiting to R in a teamfight, because even a braindead kid could play Katarina. Yeah you COULD play her well - except no one does because she is so newb friendly that no good player would bother, since she has glaring weaknesses (namely, if you shut R down, she's DONE). I take great pleasure in playing LeBlanc in these games as I shut her the hell down and remind the player why they are so bad they had to resort to playing Katarina, and even that didn't work. /thread


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-13-2012

What makes Kat shines is her passive...not R

You sir doesn't know any good Kat player yet...


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grundomnia

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Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin¨viel View Post
Katarina is a terrible champion. 99% of the people who play her are just bad players waiting to R in a teamfight, because even a braindead kid could play Katarina. Yeah you COULD play her well - except no one does because she is so newb friendly that no good player would bother, since she has glaring weaknesses (namely, if you shut R down, she's DONE). I take great pleasure in playing LeBlanc in these games as I shut her the hell down and remind the player why they are so bad they had to resort to playing Katarina, and even that didn't work. /thread
You obviously haven't played kat. And so what if you used Leblanc to shut her down every champion has a counter and leblanc is one of Kat's. If you truly played kat you'd understand that while the mechanics are simple a great deal of strategy and tactic is needed to bring out her full potential


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L├ązySushi

Member

07-13-2012

when it comes to kat i usally have somewhat different opinions then the usual ones.

I don't find her to be so utterly weak before reaching lvl 6. If she would fight 1 vs 1 before reaching lvl 6 untill death with any other classical AP champion, yes then she would surely loose. But her strength in the laning lays in her harass. Maxing her Q first let's you much easier push if needed, which she otherwise will suck in, and you get a strong harass. Combine Q with E and throw it on a caster minion, the jump range it's large enough to force the enemy to back away if they want to spare their HP. Once they are low enough you just shunpoo in and seal the deal. In a average game i manage most the time to score a kill or two before reaching lvl 6.

BUT, further on to the Topic of this Post. When i play katarina i have gotten the habbit to start with a Doran's shield. Maxing Q first and having a Doran shield let's the pre lvl 6 game go as a breeze and gives u all sustain needed untill the Hextech gun. The next step is, if needed, Sorcerer boots. More then often do i choose to build Gunblade before grade 2 boots. Then after that i build rylai's crystal scepter. So instead of doing one of thoose different builds you showed in the Post, i builds a mix of them.
Some might think it's a waste to build 2 items with slow. But i don't. the slow from gunblade is a single target and also has a cooldown. The slow from crystal scepter is a passive and a apply on every damaging spell katarina got. The passives effect is greatest on Q and on R. Having slow on Q let's you easy slow many targets at once and also greatest in chasing moments, as it's has a great range. Combine her E and Q with slow on both makes it hard to escape her. It's also effect Her ulti greatly since it's now also harder to escape from it's range in time before you die or suffer to much dmg to stay in the fight.

Lastly, so do i want to say that crystal scepter is also really important as you need some kind of durability in fights as when playing katarina you won't be on the edge of the fight, spamming spell from a safe range. Katarina's need to be close to her targets to work as good as possible. Shunpoo actually ,as you should know, moves you to meele range to the targetd enemy. having no form of durability is Madness on her. So why rylai's crystal scpeter? The answer is simple: it's the best Hp item without Mana or mana regen for her. Zonya's Hourglass won't cut the deal either as the active of the item can't be used at the same time as your ulti, making it less viable.


TL/DR: I build both Hextech gunblade and Ryali's crystal scepter. It works great, giving both sustain and durability, and the slow on both isn't wasted at all.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LňzySushi View Post
when it comes to kat i usally have somewhat different opinions then the usual ones.

I don't find her to be so utterly weak before reaching lvl 6. If she would fight 1 vs 1 before reaching lvl 6 untill death with any other classical AP champion, yes then she would surely loose. But her strength in the laning lays in her harass. Maxing her Q first let's you much easier push if needed, which she otherwise will suck in, and you get a strong harass. Combine Q with E and throw it on a caster minion, the jump range it's large enough to force the enemy to back away if they want to spare their HP. Once they are low enough you just shunpoo in and seal the deal. In a average game i manage most the time to score a kill or two before reaching lvl 6.

BUT, further on to the Topic of this Post. When i play katarina i have gotten the habbit to start with a Doran's shield. Maxing Q first and having a Doran shield let's the pre lvl 6 game go as a breeze and gives u all sustain needed untill the Hextech gun. The next step is, if needed, Sorcerer boots. More then often do i choose to build Gunblade before grade 2 boots. Then after that i build rylai's crystal scepter. So instead of doing one of thoose different builds you showed in the Post, i builds a mix of them.
Some might think it's a waste to build 2 items with slow. But i don't. the slow from gunblade is a single target and also has a cooldown. The slow from crystal scepter is a passive and a apply on every damaging spell katarina got. The passives effect is greatest on Q and on R. Having slow on Q let's you easy slow many targets at once and also greatest in chasing moments, as it's has a great range. Combine her E and Q with slow on both makes it hard to escape her. It's also effect Her ulti greatly since it's now also harder to escape from it's range in time before you die or suffer to much dmg to stay in the fight.

Lastly, so do i want to say that crystal scepter is also really important as you need some kind of durability in fights as when playing katarina you won't be on the edge of the fight, spamming spell from a safe range. Katarina's need to be close to her targets to work as good as possible. Shunpoo actually ,as you should know, moves you to meele range to the targetd enemy. having no form of durability is Madness on her. So why rylai's crystal scpeter? The answer is simple: it's the best Hp item without Mana or mana regen for her. Zonya's Hourglass won't cut the deal either as the active of the item can't be used at the same time as your ulti, making it less viable.


TL/DR: I build both Hextech gunblade and Ryali's crystal scepter. It works great, giving both sustain and durability, and the slow on both isn't wasted at all.
I'm guessing your AD carry is very grateful that you invest in feeding him kills so much. As you should, since lategame IS AD arry game.

Now, whilst my main arguement is that rushing Rylai as main item is stupid, so your item build is a bit off-topic, I do think it's suboptimal unless youreally need to peel ennemies off your AD carry, or permakite ennemies who permachase you whilst your entire frontlane chases their carries. Mind that I didn't go into depth about my itemization after Gblade because it's all situational from there on., so the rest of this post is relatively off-topic

The most cost-effective health item is not Rylai, it's Giant's belt. I consider 470 HP for 1110 gold to be better than 500 HP for 3105 health. I feel the 700 gold combine cost for the Rylai kind of goes to waste because the only thing you get for it is the slow, which I feel is relatively useless. Here's why it is useless in my experience:
- I can't remember the last time that 'multiple ennemies simply walking out of my ult' was an issue. CC, blinks and dashes are generally the problem.
- If your ennemies do have some cc, it loses it's use entirely, since the 15% slow off your ult is ppb the weakest cc in the game.
- The Q slow (35%, BB bounces count as individual single-target spells) is stronger. And more useless, since Q's your finishing move?

Now it's not a waste to build survivability, you got that right. Yet Zhonya's, Abyssal and Fort pots just give you so much more bang for you money than Rylai survivability-wise.

On the D shield start: I just value positioning and the ability to escape ganks valuable, hence the boots+3 start.

TL;DR: don't get Rylai after your Gblade. Tried it extensively, waste.


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Lilariorl

Junior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post

On top of that, you get the strongest single-target slow in the game (check the active)
It's the second strongest single target slow in the game. Zilean's slow is 55% for 5.5 seconds.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilariorl View Post
It's the second strongest single target slow in the game. Zilean's slow is 55% for 5.5 seconds.
the strongest one you can actually get... Nasus' ppb beats it too. But Kat can get neither of those


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aphronyaa

Senior Member

07-17-2012

I believe both TiensiNoAkuma and Scarra said Rylai's is a terrible item compared to other possibilities on Katarina.