If you believe turtling is an issue, you're doing it wrong.

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IS148a223fc86b1c4fb2104

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Competent people against noobs that throw their deny in 1 wave may have no problem, but have some competent people trying to dney you and you won't have a creep. "We've had" etc, I've dominated 3v3 games with Morde AD but that doesn't mean it is worth anything, only the top games are representative of what can be useful or not in game.
But eh do as you want, just remember what I told you in some months when your meta is 100% AD range


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Eryn

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
Competent people against noobs that throw their deny in 1 wave may have no problem, but have some competent people trying to dney you and you won't have a creep. "We've had" etc, I've dominated 3v3 games with Morde AD but that doesn't mean it is worth anything, only the top games are representative of what can be useful or not in game.
But eh do as you want, just remember what I told you in some months when your meta is 100% AD range
I'm going to try and put this as simple as I can.

If 'competent' players could deny someone so incredibly hard in a 2v1 lane that it made having a jungle useless, why does nearly every top team use a jungle on Twisted Treeline?

Answer me that one and you may be a Twisted Treeline Guru.

Please don't tell me Sj408, Lixalollipop, and Sam are 'noobs' who aren't 'competent'.


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Lorthix

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
Competent people against noobs that throw their deny in 1 wave may have no problem, but have some competent people trying to dney you and you won't have a creep. "We've had" etc, I've dominated 3v3 games with Morde AD but that doesn't mean it is worth anything, only the top games are representative of what can be useful or not in game.
But eh do as you want, just remember what I told you in some months when your meta is 100% AD range
Well we're 1600 and they were a 1750 team, so I consider that a pretty good game. Not necessarily top but good enough. And as you said 'only the top games are representative', well all the top teams use *drumroll*... JUNGLE! Man what a revelation. All the other team has to do is use their jumps/dashes to get to your AD, stun him, and the majority of your damage is gone.


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IS148a223fc86b1c4fb2104

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by E1C View Post
I'm going to try and put this as simple as I can.

If 'competent' players could deny someone so incredibly hard in a 2v1 lane that it made having a jungle useless, why does nearly every top team use a jungle on Twisted Treeline?

Answer me that one and you may be a Twisted Treeline Guru.

Please don't tell me Sj408, Lixalollipop, and Sam are 'noobs' who aren't 'competent'.
If 'competent' players could go over a deny so efficiently that having and AD+support wasn't worth it, why does 100% top team in europe use this instead of a classic topjungle on Twisted Treeline ?

Answer that and you may understand my point. I'm not saying Sam and other players (i actually haven't seen the 2 other players you listed, I've seen other) are bad, I'm saying your meta isn't up to date. Our 2 servers are totally isolated and metas can evolve in different ways without affecting each other because of this separation.

For example you guys have never seen Nunu as a top pick but it's in the top 3 in EU, on the other hand I've also seen that you have been playing Riven for wayyyyy longer than us while she has been ignored for a long time in Europe (which was a mistake for example seeing how strong she is).

What makes me say AD+Supp is > jungle if both our respective top players have different opinion ? Simple: In Europe we used to play jungle + double solo before that, so we tried both, while in NA you haven't tried ADSupp yet


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Reap3r King

Junior Member

07-12-2012


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Lorthix

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
If 'competent' players could go over a deny so efficiently that having and AD+support wasn't worth it, why does 100% top team in europe use this instead of a classic topjungle on Twisted Treeline ?

Answer that and you may understand my point. I'm not saying Sam and other players (i actually haven't seen the 2 other players you listed, I've seen other) are bad, I'm saying your meta isn't up to date. Our 2 servers are totally isolated and metas can evolve in different ways without affecting each other because of this separation.

For example you guys have never seen Nunu as a top pick but it's in the top 3 in EU, on the other hand I've also seen that you have been playing Riven for wayyyyy longer than us while she has been ignored for a long time in Europe (which was a mistake for example seeing how strong she is).

What makes me say AD+Supp is > jungle if both our respective top players have different opinion ? Simple: In Europe we used to play jungle + double solo before that, so we tried both, while in NA you haven't tried ADSupp yet
When I search the histories of players from the top of EU Twisted Treeline players, the majority of them appear to have a jungler in their games. Granted I can only see people who have played a ranked 3s recently but Necaderp is in the number 2 team and all of the games on his history have a jungler.


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IS148a223fc86b1c4fb2104

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Well for example the 10 top teams (not gonna list the 50 that would be long ^^)

1. One or 2 Shaco jungle games in history, vast majority of others played with duolanes top . They don't really use a real support but still use a highly efficent duolane partner like Darius, Morg, Lulu etc. floating line up since they are 4.

2. (Necaderp) Ali support (with smite to control jungle) + Vayne or Corki duotop at all the games i checked.

3. 2 of these guys are highranked in 5v5 and have botlane duo for main role. In 3v3 only supp+AD top at every game.

4. They have a majority of Shen (wtf not banned) jungler or maybe support I can't tell because of cs, I will look for a replay. When Shen is banned they go Ali support. If Shen jungles it's more of a babysit for top though, because we can see he buys G/5 but no armor at all.

5. Support + ranged/melee top.

6. Same ppl than #1, still no jungle

7. Mostly with a jungle + Ad carry, team went inactive 4 months ago.

8. Shen support (again not banned lol) or classic Leona/Ali. No jungle.

9. Half support+AD, half junglers (Shyv mostly), team inactive for 4 months now.

10. Support+AD

Except for Shen/Shaco there are nearly no junglers (and I'm really not sure for Shen since none of them had a jungler build). You can check by yourself with a EU account, you just have to log, look the player profile and there is a game history in their ranked teams profile.
Support takes smite idd, for Drake issues first, but also because it helps to counter if there is a jungler, or to damage top buffs for the carry.
I guess you can laso watch some replays from lolrecorder, I don't seem to have a problem reading US games on it so it should work the other way too.


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Lorthix

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
2. (Necaderp) Ali support (with smite to control jungle) + Vayne or Corki duotop at all the games i checked.
The other ones I didn't check cause I don't have a EU account and on lolking they have no ranked 3s. But Necaderp has 3 Ranked threes on his history, 2 with jungle Lee Sin and 1 with Alistar.


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WalkingParadox

Senior Member

07-12-2012

true that


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Eryn

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
Well for example the 10 top teams (not gonna list the 50 that would be long ^^)

1. One or 2 Shaco jungle games in history, vast majority of others played with duolanes top . They don't really use a real support but still use a highly efficent duolane partner like Darius, Morg, Lulu etc. floating line up since they are 4.

2. (Necaderp) Ali support (with smite to control jungle) + Vayne or Corki duotop at all the games i checked.

3. 2 of these guys are highranked in 5v5 and have botlane duo for main role. In 3v3 only supp+AD top at every game.

4. They have a majority of Shen (wtf not banned) jungler or maybe support I can't tell because of cs, I will look for a replay. When Shen is banned they go Ali support. If Shen jungles it's more of a babysit for top though, because we can see he buys G/5 but no armor at all.

5. Support + ranged/melee top.

6. Same ppl than #1, still no jungle

7. Mostly with a jungle + Ad carry, team went inactive 4 months ago.

8. Shen support (again not banned lol) or classic Leona/Ali. No jungle.

9. Half support+AD, half junglers (Shyv mostly), team inactive for 4 months now.

10. Support+AD

Except for Shen/Shaco there are nearly no junglers (and I'm really not sure for Shen since none of them had a jungler build). You can check by yourself with a EU account, you just have to log, look the player profile and there is a game history in their ranked teams profile.
Support takes smite idd, for Drake issues first, but also because it helps to counter if there is a jungler, or to damage top buffs for the carry.
I guess you can laso watch some replays from lolrecorder, I don't seem to have a problem reading US games on it so it should work the other way too.
This is really interesting, and it really makes me want to watch top EU teams get pummeled by top NA teams.

I think I might just host a tournament. I'll invite the top 10 teams from both EU and NA.

1st place: $150 (each)
2nd place: $75 (each)
3rd place: $30 (each)

I'll record every game with LoL recorder and host it on youtube ^.^