TT Rant

First Riot Post
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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borand View Post
I have had similar issues on TT.
Last game I remember, I played as Mundo, teammates were a Kata and a GP.
Enemy team Kog Maw, Olaf, Galio.

Kata carried hard, I followed up and became extremely tanky and GP, well... He kind of fed. Still, from 24' to about 60'sth we had them caged in their base (while clearing jungle and catching Olaf out of position), until they aced us 2 times mostly because of the *turtling* issue. They pushed and won, in a game about 75 mins long (should have been about 30mins).
End game chat: "omg noobs", "can't even play a game", "l2p", "come 1v1 ****ing noobs" etc.

It really feels bad to lose games like this. You should lose due to power difference, not because turtling is being favored in TT..
That time you did catch Olaf out of position why didnyt you push 2v3 and secure the win?

And them trolling you has zero relevance to this topic...


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Doctor Tam

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Just move the fountain back, that really wouldn't require all that much would it?


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George W Nome

Game Designer

06-19-2012
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoldyOnions View Post
Not sure if this has been mentioned, and I don't play much TT so this could be a stupid idea, but would reducing the rate at which the fountain heals you be a partial solution to turtling until a long term fix is reached?
Yep, that's one solution that's come up. I think I posted about it a few days ago as well.


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Aylywyn

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Yep, that's one solution that's come up. I think I posted about it a few days ago as well.
That might hurt the early game too much?

What about something along the lines of losing a third of the base healing amount per downed inhibitor? Leaing you with 33.34% of the original when both are down? Or -25% per and half when both are down, the numbers are flexible and afterwards easily tweaked for balance...


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Fat of the Land

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I've found that a big component of the turtling issue on Twisted Treeline likely stems from the meta.
No, it stems from the fact the defending team can pull entire creep waves onto the fountain and have the laser kill them. Further they can dance off and on the healing foutnain which is nearly in spell range of the nexus turret, thereby have fountain healing as they are killing the people attacking the nexus turret.

Both of these things are possible to an extent on SR, but it is far easier to accomplish on TT due to the fact on SR the minion waves have to go around the turrets and nexus to reach the fountain, whereas on TT the creep waves naturally go between the nexus and fountain.

It is a really poor design and 100% the reason why it is so easy to turtle on TT.


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Broseiden

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Yep, that's one solution that's come up. I think I posted about it a few days ago as well.
Somewhat of a complex solution here...

But what if there was some sort of structure in the middle of the map that boosted minion strengh? Sort of like a Dominion capture point,so that the team in control had minions that were tougher to kill. Might add uniqueness to the map and partially solve the turtling effect. The team further pushed would almost always have control making it easier to push, but the other team could have a chance to capture it at any time. Food for thought.


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Houston

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Yep, that's one solution that's come up. I think I posted about it a few days ago as well.
Would this work, switch the turret and nexus around and then put a bridge to the front turret in the jungle right in front of it. This would force them to come out of fountain to defend.
Also, might have to push the side turrets outward a bit because the front turret might be a little farther outward that the side turrets, confusing people the order in which u have to kill them. Maybe not?


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sthorwall

Senior Member

06-19-2012

@RiotNome:
How difficult would it be to program a TT-specific effect in which the fountain simply doesn't harm minions?

Come to think of it, when in SR, or even Dominion, do you ever really fountain-kite minions anyway? Would Riot look at that as a universal mechanic? Fountain only zapping champs and pets?


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leonresevil2

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Senior Member

06-20-2012

I can attest to the power of turtling in TT, as I've won and lost games from it. I've grabbed enemies and pulled them into spawn as Skarner and gotten repeated kills in the same way.

I like the ideas of having inhib loss affect pedestal regen rates.
I also get a bit annoyed with how easily some champs can backdoor or hop over the walls to pull stupid things. I know it goes contrary to design conventions, but maybe the nexus and spawn could switch places? This could allow defenders to blink out of the base quicker (but thicken the walls around the spawn so they can't get directly in) while easing backdoor issues and solving minion re-routing issues. Making the pedestal not target minions is a decent idea, of course if 2 super minions or more follow you in and you have no turret, you may have a big challenge. The minions would have to return to target the nexus, or they may just camp your spawn (or kill lvl 1 disconnecters).


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MrPOPOrulkrilin

Member

06-20-2012

It should be a challenge to win at the end. Guaranteeing a win just because a team is ahead seems to be a design flaw. Otherwise why play it out?

Already people give up early without really trying to come back. Many don't realize that with certain late game champs (e.g. mordekaiser) virtually no game is unwinnable and hence takes teamwork to win from lead or come back from deficit.


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