The Tribunal: The First Year

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ShadowPraxis

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaDaBiBaDaBoom View Post
so your telling me that your a goody two-shoes that would let everyone step all over you just because you can "Practice Self-Control"? we do that everyday in REAL LIFE. everyone have to practice their self control towards their boss and try to not burn bridges in life, but in a game? if your practicing self control to that point, then sorry to say your going to have a hard time in life.End of Line
One doesn't have to be a "goody two-shoes" to keep others from stepping on you. You also don't have to be a raging, flailing neanderthal to do so either. The fact that you can't recognize the difference says plenty.

Seriously, was nobody in this generation raised properly by their parents? Acting out like this would have gotten your butt torn up when I was young. I really feel bad for most of you - sincerely :/


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Pumaster

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowPraxis View Post
One doesn't have to be a "goody two-shoes" to keep others from stepping on you. You also don't have to be a raging, flailing neanderthal to do so either. The fact that you can't recognize the difference says plenty.

Seriously, was nobody in this generation raised properly by their parents? Acting out like this would have gotten your butt torn up when I was young. I really feel bad for most of you - sincerely :/
It is ironic that Bada is talking about how people get upset eventually when people keep making personal insults and such, and then you go on making personal insults.

This sort of cycle is exactly what happens.

You do not need to make comments about "feel[ing] bad for most of [us]", because our parents did not teach us right.

You are making moral judgements, postulating yourself as our moral superior simply because we are admitting that we can have emotional reactions to repeated abuses.

And you are then going right into the realm of personal insults.

That is part of the very problem.


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Badsport

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumaster View Post
Everyone is allowed the right to play this game, hence the FTP.

If you break the rules, those rights should be suspended or taken away.

Except the problem is the people who break the rules are not the ones always punished, and many times people who deserve no blame are harassed until they break.

You should not be punished for being the victim.

And what is more, you NOT should have an open-door policy for who gets to be the authorities. There is a reason there is a vetting process this position in any and every other game or system. Ever.

Patenting mob justice. The Tribunal®
A few key details here: their is nothing stopping you from utilizing /ignore. When I am faced with a disruptive, rude, or just downright hateful players I ignore them right away and report them afterwards for their behavior. Is this difficult? Not really. Its 9 keystrokes plus their name length start to finish.

Putting yourself in a situation in which you come under such duress that you "break" is 50% your fault. An alcoholic in recovery doesn't go to parties where alcohol is served for a reason. If you know you are prone to anger/pressure from rude players, use /ignore, or stop playing the game. Always report abusive players afterwards.

The system is working, I've been playing the game for 2 years and while you will still see trolls, they aren't in every game anymore. They are becoming less common. Additionally, if you read any of the material regarding the tribunal, you will notice several provisions where they have customer support staff review cases that involve suspensions. Warnings are fully automated, and that's fine. I've lost my cool a few times at trolls, but I've never even gotten a warning because I don't fly off the handle every game either.


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Pumaster

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

This sort of thread is typical of our "Tribunal Judges"

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2155738

To sum it up, he says he punishes simply if people type in all caps for a few lines.

His reasoning is he finds it annoying.

This is very typical of how un-vetted judges make their decisions. If you are annoying, out of the norm, strange, different.

I have seen literally dozens of threads like this, with Tribunal judges citing the most menial of non-rule-breaking actions and punishing for them.

I also like how Pro-Tribunalists will cite how in real life people are judged by a "jury of their peers". Well I don't know about any of those people, but when I have gone to serve jury duty, there is a vetting process for that too. There are movies about how important the vetting process is, and how mistakes with that can ruin the very letter of the law.

Personally, I think Henry Fonda would have been BANNED in the movie "12 Angry Men".


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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05-27-2012
24 of 49 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaDaBiBaDaBoom View Post
Think about it this way then. instead of this tribunal system, which you guys fail to see the flaw, why not hire a full time supporter who job is to just to overview the report. leaving it up to player to judge these matter is just plain dumb. they have no incentive to care. all they do is just push punish lol.

and the chat log does not provide enough information as to what was going on in that particular game also. there might be a troll or someone giving away a free win which is not going to be in chat. most of the time all you can see is the player raging but have no idea why. the tribunal really does more then a poor way of doing your job for you. I bet you any thing you wouldn't perm-ban any of the tournament players for offensive language. Dam hypercritical *******. my bro even got the limited edition jax skin and he is pissed off that you perm-ban him for offensive language lol that's the first i have seen a game to do that to its paying customer. Now let see you perm-ban Hotshot who also use offensive language even when he stream. -.- Everyone rage every now and then, especially during rank game, so ya being perm ban is stupid.
Why do we have jurors that help decide on verdicts in real life?

Research and data actually shows that using The Tribunal and using our players as reviewers is more accurate than 1 Player Support staff reviewing the case. It's counter-intuitive, but it's a very cool finding.


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ShadowPraxis

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumaster View Post
It is ironic that Bada is talking about how people get upset eventually when people keep making personal insults and such, and then you go on making personal insults.

This sort of cycle is exactly what happens.

You do not need to make comments about "feel[ing] bad for most of [us]", because our parents did not teach us right.

You are making moral judgements, postulating yourself as our moral superior simply because we are admitting that we can have emotional reactions to repeated abuses.

And you are then going right into the realm of personal insults.

That is part of the very problem.
We ALL have emotional reactions to repeated abuses. What differentiates us is how we choose to deal with them.

Some do their best to maintain their cool (especially since it's proven that we perform poorly when angered/upset) and chose to ignore the person baiting us, waiting until the end of the game to report them for behavior that runs contrary to the Summoner's Code that we all agreed to abide by (notice that check mark under your name?).

Some decided to give in to their rage by trolling, screaming profanities at their teammates, mocking their enemies and generally acting contrary to the Code (and, you know, civilized society in general).

One path leads to less ulcers for me and a cleaner community.

The other leads to an unpleasant game for EVERYONE involved (generally even the person freaking out), a community with unnecessary toxicity and just bad feelings all around.

If picking the former is me flaunting a supposed moral high ground or superiority, well then *flaunt flaunt,* baby. I'd rather be called elitist and live in a better, nicer world than allow serial recidivists and people with impulse control problems to ruin the fun for me and my friends.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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05-27-2012
25 of 49 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmeQuicksilver View Post
Normally because they have people JUST TO DO THAT. LoL may not rake in the money of WoW with it's monthly fee, but if you're telling me Riot is so strapped for cash they can't spare one person who's entire purpose is to judge some cases, I'm calling bollocks.
We have Player Support teams dedicated to reviewing cases and handling tickets. Who said we don't have people doing that...?


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Lyte

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05-27-2012
26 of 49 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiegeWaffles View Post
Wouldn't hacking accusations bypass the tribunal completely?
AFAIK it's not listed among the possible report reasons and I'd think a hacking accusation support ticket would be serious enough to directly look into instead of just forwarding it to the tribunal...
Yes, hacking claims are outside The Tribunal. I think that person just doesn't know the full story from his cousin


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guardianangel314

Junior Member

05-27-2012

I just reached level 30 and I am unable to access the tribunal and do my part. I am sorry to ask this, but how would I do this, because every time I try to access it, it says that it is in recess, what should I do.


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Badsport

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by guardianangel314 View Post
I just reached level 30 and I am unable to access the tribunal and do my part. I am sorry to ask this, but how would I do this, because every time I try to access it, it says that it is in recess, what should I do.
From what I understand the tribunal is down for repairs/service right now. It should be back up shortly.