"Tyrant" Swain?

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Vulking

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
I did put "evil" in quotation marks. By his visuals, it's easy for an average player (who hasn't invested time in Swain's lore and backstory) to guess/interpret that he is probably an evil dude, or at least a villain--and that's what we go for, we like at-a-glance readability and clarity in our characters. We also like depth and nuance, so yes, "evil" is an entirely surface-level statement, Swain's character--and Noxus' by extension--are up for moral debate.
Are you implying that extreme capitalism is evil and hyper monarchy is good? =/


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RiotRunaan

Associate Creative Designer

05-22-2012
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulking View Post
Are you implying that extreme capitalism is evil and hyper monarchy is good? =/
I don't mean to imply either of these things is good. Our goal is to leave it up to our players/readers to decide who is in the right.

Man, this is why I should stay the heck out of anything smelling even slightly of a Demacia vs. Noxus debate. :P


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Myrmidont

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
I don't mean to imply either of these things is good. Our goal is to leave it up to our players/readers to decide who is in the right.

Man, this is why I should stay the heck out of anything smelling even slightly of a Demacia vs. Noxus debate. :P
As long as you portray both sides fairly you have absolutely no problem with pseudo political statements imo.


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

05-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
I did put "evil" in quotation marks. By his visuals, it's easy for an average player (who hasn't invested time in Swain's lore and backstory) to guess/interpret that he is probably an evil dude, or at least a villain--and that's what we go for, we like at-a-glance readability and clarity in our characters. We also like depth and nuance, so yes, "evil" is an entirely surface-level statement, Swain's character--and Noxus' by extension--are up for moral debate.
I'd be willing to argue he is evil if A. He had something to do with making sure Kat's dad "went away". Or B. We find the source of his power and the deal that brokered it.

But otherwise he could be the best person ever since he prizes his intellect and has possibly reasoned the best way to stop all the fighting is to win. No matter what


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IS13ff69c642974b3ec23a7

Senior Member

05-23-2012

Game of Thrones should be mandatory watching/reading for those old enough, just to understand a little more about grey morality and politics. It's not the only example, but it's the most recent and the series is very watchable.

He may be many things, but Swain isn't a Joffrey, not by a long shot. Feels more like back when Tywin Lannister was Aerys II's Hand of the King, and he was a good and able administrator of the realm for 20 years. Ruthless, efficient, and doing whatever was needed to ensure his and his family's success. A selfish person, but not necessarily evil. For that, just look at Joffrey, or Aerys II the Mad King.

Also, as for GoT influences...

Hand of Noxus
=
Hand of the King?

With that Norse King Darius skin, all it needs is Ice and having it shout "BAELOR!"


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

05-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
I don't mean to imply either of these things is good. Our goal is to leave it up to our players/readers to decide who is in the right.

Man, this is why I should stay the heck out of anything smelling even slightly of a Demacia vs. Noxus debate. :P
We need more info on the Demacian royalty exercising their power on the dark side of the spectrum. :P
Hearing about J4's father executing someone trying to protest equality in society (for being guilty of disturbing the peace and possibly treason) might give us some perspective.

The most recent thing the JoJ showed was Garen defending Katarina - Hardly anything "evil" for people to pick at.


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Sylvr

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Senior Member

05-23-2012

Oh who am I kidding, let's just morph and eat them.


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Rauron

Senior Member

05-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
By his visuals, it's easy for an average player to guess/interpret that he is probably an evil dude, or at least a villain--and that's what we go for
This makes the Lore feel like a charitable little handout for those who want to complicate the game. A certain amount of readability is fine, but confirming those initial, misinformed ideas isn't, in my opinion. That shallow, gut reaction, he-looks-bad thing is fine, but don't reinforce it by pointing to his greatest victory and saying "this is how you know he's a bad guy". He's not, fully, and Riot should be okay with expressing that outside of the (now dead) JoJ.


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SSJBroly

Member

05-23-2012

poo


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StarkRavenMad

Senior Member

05-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baihu View Post
Game of Thrones should be mandatory watching/reading for those old enough, just to understand a little more about grey morality and politics. It's not the only example, but it's the most recent and the series is very watchable.

He may be many things, but Swain isn't a Joffrey, not by a long shot. Feels more like back when Tywin Lannister was Aerys II's Hand of the King, and he was a good and able administrator of the realm for 20 years. Ruthless, efficient, and doing whatever was needed to ensure his and his family's success. A selfish person, but not necessarily evil. For that, just look at Joffrey, or Aerys II the Mad King.

Also, as for GoT influences...

Hand of Noxus
=
Hand of the King?

With that Norse King Darius skin, all it needs is Ice and having it shout "BAELOR!"
Upvoted for bringing in Game of Thrones.

I count Swain as a Varys/Tyrion/Baelish combo. He holds the wit and charm of Tyrion, the network of information of Varys, and the cold hearted efficiency of Baelish. So, this brings the question: What kind of leader is he? That's hard to tell. I hope the new lore allows deeper depth of this, portraying Swain to, at first, give much power to the Black Rose once more, and of course, going to LeBlanc to discuss some of the happenings, but is actually making Noxus back into the old ways.