Elementz 5v5 Tier List (Draft Mode)

First Riot Post
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hashinshin

Senior Member

08-12-2010

i have a question

in this age of what appears to be everyone stacking defense while still doing fantastic damage, what are champions like kassadin and ryze supposed to do. sure i can do 1000 damage in a second, but it doesn't matter when they'll kill me by when my cooldowns come back and they have 2500 hp.

i feel as if the burst ability champion, kassadin pantheon ect, are no longer viable

edit, i realize the champs i mentioned are low tiered, but even low tier beefy damage champs such as olaf appear to do far better.


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Ryuzakku

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Hey Elementz! Uh, quick question, what was the reasoning behind Katarina's major drop in the tiers?


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Ideal

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuzakku View Post
Hey Elementz! Uh, quick question, what was the reasoning behind Katarina's major drop in the tiers?
kat countered healing, healing got nerfed, so kat got nerfed


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CrimsonSkies

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Yeahhh, top of tier 3. That makes me much happier.


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Cyer

Senior Member

08-12-2010

how come Kayle was moved down?


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Ryuzakku

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ideal View Post
kat countered healing, healing got nerfed, so kat got nerfed
I can still stomp people with her, I normally never play against healing teams


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MeatB1ade

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuzakku View Post
I can still stomp people with her, I normally never play against healing teams
Keep in mind his list is based around top tier play. Obviously Kat is a pretty good pub-stomper at lower elos, but at the top level almost every team will have some kind of support/heal.

Having that said, I still find healing to be incredibly useful and therefore Katarina to be incredibly useful. Granted, I am not playing at said top tier, but even when playing against very high calibur teams/players, timing your moves right and positioning yourself well with Kat can still give you deadly results.


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a schadenfreude

Senior Member

08-12-2010

@ The person who asked about bans.
No, you don't ban people like Ezreal over Shen, do to the fact that as amazing as a carry, that Ezreal is, he doesn't change the game as much as Shen can - Shen can save a carry, can make people focus fire him, and can generally change the game around even if it means he dies.
Ezreal, as amazing as he is, can die without much effort with a little CC or focus fire, because even with a flash ability, you can only run from 5 people and do so much damage at the same time. Losing an underfed carry to take out an overfed carry tips the game in your favor, or at least, lessens their advantage.
Katarina is also more easily countered now with more and more champions being able to break her ult with taunts, stuns and the like, such as taric always being picked, Galio's taunt, and so on - She's viable, but counterable. Gangplank and Tristana counter healing too, but they can do more than that, and are harder to CC (Not sure where they are on the tier list, though.)
@ Kayle - She's still a hard carry, but her moves make less of a difference in team fights now, and if you want a hard carry for damage, Ashe is available.
@ healing - It is useful, but is counterable by not only champions, but items (Executioner's calling), and although it can save lives - It rarely makes games. Siege teams are less of a threat now with the ability to turtle, and the one time a siege team overextends, they'll lose as much as they've gained during one wipe, to a turtle team who has an advantage.
PS @ Kat. - He didn't move her to tier 4, he put her in tier 3. Still viable, just not a rushed pick. She's good, but not amazing. A fed Ezreal can do more than a fed Kat, and a fed Ezreal beats a fed Kat, for example.
Another thing to note - Any champion 'can' give deadly results. It's whether they will or not at high level play, not considering high level team composition.
IE: Kat + Amumu = win.
Kat + Nunu does not.

I will state one last time (Let's face it - this won't be the last time. -Sigh.-)
Tier lists are for champions, not for composition. If you want to talk team comp, find a team comp thread - This is about champions and their abilities on their own without the help of a team. Evelynn with a good team can theoretically rape, but Evelynn on her own is just near unplayable in a ranked game, sorry.
If you see a team with a Taric, Soraka, and Kayle, sure, Katarina is a fine pick, but if you see a team full of tanks and crowd control, why the hell would you take her?


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Eppa

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etheliel View Post
Stuff
Bans in tournaments are based on who you play against. Bans in ladders don't really matter unless its solo Q

Shen is not even close to as good as you see him. He's good but there is a multitude of good tanks.

Kat is still good with Morgana and I mean really good.


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a schadenfreude

Senior Member

08-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppa View Post
Bans in tournaments are based on who you play against. Bans in ladders don't really matter unless its solo Q

Shen is not even close to as good as you see him. He's good but there is a multitude of good tanks.

Kat is still good with Morgana and I mean really good.
Once again.
Team composition.
I will repeat, ONCE AGAIN. (TOLD YOU.)
This is about champions ON THEIR OWN.
Tier lists do not account for team composition.
STOP SAYING "<> IS GOOD WITH <>"
:|


And to clarify (edit <-- -->) tournaments, like LAN tournaments? Yeah, that's who you're against.
But in ranked games and where you don't know who you're playing?
I don't recall this going to specify only tournaments.
Ladder play is also counted.