Reward Influence with Influence Points

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TheCowness

Senior Member

02-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by seleleth View Post
Have players rate only teammates. There's no reason to rate the other team. There is way too much room for bias. Plus, they're supposed to be jerks to you. That's just part of the fun.
I don't agree with this. 80-90% of the LoL community thinks they are the MVP every single game they play. The proof is in the concept of "elo hell," where every single game a person gets matched with four people they're unable to carry, and he belongs 400 elo above where he is but oh man the matchmaker keeps screwing him over. You think this guy will give unbiased votes?

However, the enemy team knows who fed and why with much less bias than your teammates. It's possible for a good player to get a bad matchup and lose their lane, but his teammates will blame him even though it's not entirely his fault. Whenever I'm in bot lane (whether carry or support) and the enemy carry finishes with a 2/9 score, I know whether they were being retarded or whether my lanemate and I were just playing perfectly and steamrolled them. But in both cases the guy's team blames him and asks us to report him.


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seleleth

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Senior Member

02-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCowness View Post
I don't agree with this. 80-90% of the LoL community thinks they are the MVP every single game they play. The proof is in the concept of "elo hell," where every single game a person gets matched with four people they're unable to carry, and he belongs 400 elo above where he is but oh man the matchmaker keeps screwing him over. You think this guy will give unbiased votes?

However, the enemy team knows who fed and why with much less bias than your teammates. It's possible for a good player to get a bad matchup and lose their lane, but his teammates will blame him even though it's not entirely his fault. Whenever I'm in bot lane (whether carry or support) and the enemy carry finishes with a 2/9 score, I know whether they were being retarded or whether my lanemate and I were just playing perfectly and steamrolled them. But in both cases the guy's team blames him and asks us to report him.
Thanks for the feedback.

I fear the tangential discussion of Elo on the previous page may have given you the wrong impression of what this system is about. A player's Elo rating is one thing. The way they influence or treat others is another.

The Elo rating system has its issues. It was a system designed for individuals (two-player games) and it is being applied in LoL to teams. But that's all really beside the point of this discussion and this proposed rewards system.

This is a discussion about influence, or how enjoyable people are to interact with. It's about rewarding good influence and reducing the reward of players who are a bad influence. The only systems which exist currently to encourage players to make the game more enjoyable for others are A) Riot asking us really, really nicely (The Summoner's Code) and B) the vague threat of punishment (The Tribunal). Neither is working, so far as any of us can tell.

Anyway, your concerns about players' votes being subjective would indeed be a concern if we were rating player skill, or ability to win. And they would exist as much from the other team as from the same team (e.g., he beat me mid, so I'll rate him as bad to get back at him).

But this isn't about rating player skill. It's about rating player influence. Player skill very well may factor into that. It's all up to the individual. If someone's a bad player, and that upsets you, you can downvote them. If you can't stand people complaining about Elo and how they feel they should be 400 higher, you can downvote them. If someone talks about ways to kill babies all through the game, and that happens to be your thing, you can upvote them.

While that may sound unpredictable and chaotic, the truth is people are quite the same in a lot of ways, and I think that all of us know which actions will lead to more positive ratings and vice versa. Sure, there will be players who simply want to mess with things and will vote the complete opposite of the way they know they are "supposed to." However, they will be limited to one person's worth of opinion in influence ratings, which is exactly their value. Plus, I'm confident they will be very much in the minority, especially with ratings being anonymous. (There's very little reason to act out without an audience.)

I'm of the opinion that people playing this game CAN be much, much more enjoyable to be around if they try. The problem is they are not trying. The reason is because they lack the motive to do so.


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Itorbeh

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Senior Member

02-08-2012

I have been thinking about this somewhat since I first read it and I have also thought upon the idea of the enemy team being able to rate your own teams performance.

I have to say I have absolute faith in a system which allows for both to be possible: For the sake of this analysis we will use 70 IP as the base rate awarded to a totally neutral champion for a loss and 110 for a win, these can be changed according to fairness and to remove exploitation.

Teams Influence:
Upon finishing a match each team member can rate their team positively, negatively or neutrally (default), with a base of 110 for a win a neutral cast from majority players on you will award 110 IP, with a majority positive cast there could be a bonus 30 IP and with a negative cast there could be a reduction of 30 IP from a players win pool. Advantages to this will be that teams can decide WHAT influences their game, if nothing then neutrality is of course the default and a win is still a *win* to the average player, for those who have good leadership without stepping on toes, who's decision at the last moment was the deciding factor in an other wise believed to be unwinnable game, or a support character who while statistically has nothing to show for the efforts was beyond crucial and effective or negating of the enemy team in the game. It will allow the culture of the game to focus upon what they find good about the game themselves.

A neutral vote will always be cast by the player upon themselves so that each player may only have the other four team members to vote for, teams of three or more players may not vote towards team members thus creating a neutral game chance for themselves and others, it will eliminate IP boosting, those teams wishing to play with three or more players will most likely have already traded the goal of gaining a minuscule IP boost any way for a greater chance of winning by selecting a team composition likely to favour one another or at the least they had the chance at the start to pick their team members.

The enemy team:

After the game is over and each team has finished their votes on their own team they may then proceed to vote on the enemy team, only "best player" and "worst player" may be selected other wise no vote cast at all will create a neutral vote for all, a further 20 (to 30) point boost or 20 (to 30) point deduction follows an enemy teams best and worst player choice creating a real incentive for those wanting to get ahead in the game to also play nice.

With this system, people who leave still incur the greatest penalty of all (no points) and for those who are particularly abusive or disruptive to gameplay there is still and hopefully will continue to be the report feature however when it comes to the IN GAME application of a players choices and also to an extent behaviour the punishment will be immediate but it will also make players consider what it is that constitutes good gameplay.

In finishing:

Being rewarded by both your team and your enemy will give not only a good boost in IP (thus creating the influence on the game over all) but also to morale which is something that the community lacks.

It also means those reports which do come in to riot will be the more serious cases as most issues between players get resolved after a match is over, the punishment is already dealt to an enemy team with a particularly "negative" attitude (ie. any thing from trash talking to deliberate insults) but also will allow sympathy to your opponents other than just "yeah sorry for XYZ doing ZYX" if the team believe and even the enemy team believe then there is a real downside to both negative gameplay manoeuvres and behaviour.

Majority votes rule, when votes are scored equally between two players it becomes a neutral score for both.

This system will have the greatest influence in single and duo queue games, arguably where it is needed the most!


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seleleth

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Senior Member

02-08-2012

Good to have some examples of what people might perceive as being a positive example here in the thread.

I'd be really doubtful of ratings from the enemy team being of any value. After a sound ass-kicking, it may be hard to come out and say "good job" to the ones wearing the boots. People are likely to rate the best player the worst and vice-versa just to get some satisfaction out of it. Maybe that's just me.

Moreover, I'm not bothered by the other team being negative, raging, trolling, whining, etc to my team. In fact, it usually brings me some form of entertainment or enjoyment. It's not something I think needs to be fixed or even that I want to be fixed. But again, maybe that's just me.

Regardless, thanks for the input.


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Itorbeh

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Senior Member

02-08-2012

I think a direct counter to that will be a false positive immediately covering the "good player".

If the team nominates someone as being good but the enemy rates them as being bad then by virtue of it being the people who worked closely together who would or should know who the better player is the enemy teams "vote" might be a conclusive measure.. ie. If your team AND the enemy rated you so, then it must be true kind of thing.

if they contradict then the teams own score rules instead...

Or quite possibly the best thing to do would be to have the enemy teams try to guess which players were ranked the highest and lowest by the enemy team which would award them a fairness bonus, or just a reward for noticing which players gameplay affected their opponents game for the best or the worst.

If anything that would create extra awareness of other players in the game ^_^


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seleleth

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

Would appreciate more input on this. And some attention from Riot would be marvelous.

In other words, bump.


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Rnathan001

Junior Member

02-09-2012

This is a brilliant idea.

My dad is a teacher, and gets a similar evaluation at the end of each of his courses.
His certification relies on getting good evaluations, or he loses the certification.

Why should the rewards given to summoner's after a game be any different?

Very well structured!

Three thumbs up.


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seleleth

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Senior Member

02-10-2012

Good to see others are interested. If you like this idea, please +1 and bump to let Riot know. Thanks!


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seleleth

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Senior Member

02-11-2012

I added a TLDR version to the first post. I fear too many people just walk away when they see the wall of text.


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seleleth

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Senior Member

02-12-2012

I realized there was no point to having a "Nuetral" rate button. So I removed that from my ideas for implementation.


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