Items to avoid and WHY(semi-guide)

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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-17-2010

I see what your saying but it's just to much gold for the situation in my view. Kayle doesn't need any other boosts to her pushing and should try to get her rageblade/nashors has early as possible and the 1k gold will delay it. Also the items it builds from are useless(which is actually one of the main problems). Also the whole it doens't upgrade part kind of neutters it, since the B.F. Sword can be upgraded into many usefull items that the timiat can't compare to.


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JIKO FIN

Junior Member

07-17-2010

Just about the 125 minion kills. Why you see it so hard? At least with cho its a piece of cake. My record with cho is over 500 minions and usually get around 200-250. With chotank I usually rush warmogs to look like unbeatable and then take some resists to really be. (and some AP or atmas to be a real threat)

Should I change my habits?


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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-17-2010

If your in a higher elo game Jiko the teams will try to force you away from farming that many minions and if you are there is a good chance you have been missing teamfights or your team is already winning. I just can't see it being worth it most of the time.

EDIT: I was wrong on the warmog's is ennefecient(sorry!)


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JIKO FIN

Junior Member

07-17-2010

Yeah they might try! But after they die few times doing that they usually let me farm until I'm ready to dominate team fights. They die thanks to my premade irl friends. I have problems only when they gank me with whole team. But I'm still happy when they do that because my mates can push while they are trying to kill an immortal cho! Maybe we haven't reached the highest elo yet but our opponents usually have about 500 more wins than us... (we changed to eu server few months ago)


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Terchio

Senior Member

07-17-2010

If an item is situational, it's hardly an 'item to avoid.' You need it to be universally pointless to the point that no matter the character, you just wasted that item slot. The chalice is a great item. Unless you decide to get a banshee's (some get it for just about everyone...), or maybe a frozen heart, or even a caster, as Archangel's staff would be a more viable option, or a hero with no mana. However, DPS characters can use the crud out of it, as they typically avoid the mana items, and it's a cheap solution. I would say Philosopher's Stone, for one, is more valuable than the chalice.

An item is only as gosu as its dirtiest usage. And as such, 'Zerker Greaves are viable simply because of how cheap they are, Warmog's is viable because there is no item that comes close to either the HP or HP regen of it, Hextech Gunblade is an option for someone who wants to close out enemies with bigger burst, or has little other source of damage, and Phantom Dancer is good on ANY DPS that needs more attack and movement speed.

Olaf, for one, uses Zerker's extremely well, as he has little magic damage, his ult stops all crowd control anyway, he gets enough HP commonly that armor is only kinda 'there,' and he has a fairly reliable slow, plus he gets a ton of dmg out of it while not boosted by his passive. I would fit DPS Mundo here as well with his natural crowd control resistance, and Malphite with his attack damage boost active, though he may need cleanse to make that work.

Warmog's is an EXCEPTIONAL addition to any tank, but notably Rammus, as with cooldown reduction boosts he may last forever with his 150 armor/MR spammed, Malphite with his commonly high armor, plus usually gets mana items with defense, either Banshee's or Frozen Heart, and also great on Sion, whose passive reduces damage and every kill he gets boosts HP from the Warmog's and from Enrage.

Hextech Gunblade is an extremely surprising item on weaker heroes, like support. Soraka with Hextech will often kill an enemy simply because he thinks he has another 3 minutes of survival time to go, but Hextech has the power to change that. Makes good use of her Harass. Janna is another one similar to that, and she works EXTREMELY well with the hybrid aspect of the item. So does Nidalee, though she doesn't get much on the spell vamp. I'm considering trying this on a Warwick hybrid, as his Q spell would heal massive amounts if it had some spell vamp and some cooldown reduction, as well as AP.

Phantom Dancer is quite good on Jax and Tryndamere, as mentioned, but so many DPS characters have trouble catching up to other heroes, and don't have amazing Sheen capabilities to warrant getting Triforce, the 4k item you have to horde gold to accomplish. With better attack speed, crit, and move speed, sometimes this is all a DPS really wants. Not to mention that dodge helps the Nimbleness (I think?) mastery proc more often.

I could go on, but I'm sick of it. Point is that all of the items are as they are because they are deemed 'balanced' to the point that someone can't overtake the game with item abuse. If it were made so that any moron could wear the item advantageously, then it would be an item that would be overpowered, because there are always those that use an item better than others.

Also, How did Malady make the list, but not the Sword of the Divine? It doesn't even have lifesteal... Overall, Attack speed is just a means to complete a strat, and if it doesn't work for yours, it doesn't mean it's a fail concept. Sometimes MIXING attack speed and damage actually turns out to be a good thing...


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Neithan02

Junior Member

07-17-2010

just a comment on wit's end...

it is quite simple..
offense in speed and damage+ magic resis

I get it for several reasons depending on the situation..

what happens to warvick if he is gunned out of mana ..> he looses the fight

nice way to get osme extra survivability versus poison damage, heimerst tturrets and so on..


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Neryth

Senior Member

07-17-2010

Warmog's is viable for any tanks who want to pack on pounds and then wreck people with Atma's Impaler. Cho can last hit creeps by giving them mean looks, so it doesn't take long to get it to a decent level.


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biomorph

Senior Member

07-17-2010

I will say that this list is pretty bogus for the very reason that in my opinion every item is situational depending on what you want to achieve as much as what hero to use them on.

The most controversial perhaps is Philosophers Stone. I use this item on Poppy since the HP/MP regen + Gold earned + Poppy passive (which is the main reason) makes you stay in lane pretty much for as long as you want. And enables you to farm despite harass.

I often build ashe as (especially if opponents are melee heavy):
- Vampiric Scepter
- Boots of Swiftness
- Infinity Edge
- 2 x Pantom Dancer

(Game often ends here)

- Blood Thirster (from scepter)
- "Some item depending on what is needed"

The double phantom dancer gives you insane dodge and speed which has made me survive the most chaotic battles which is great when you are a glass cannon.

And it goes on and on. I ask you not to take this list too seriously but the thread starter does make several very interesting points that I will take into consideration


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Sine Deis

Senior Member

07-17-2010

Last Whisper is good for tower killing.


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Temlam

Senior Member

07-17-2010

3135/1220=2.56967
1100/430=2.55813

this means! 14.0788 gold is wasted hp wise. SO!

warmogs fully stacked is an overall health loss of 14 gold, and in exchange you only get 92.5 health per 5. only 18.5 effective health per second of combat. OH MY GOD DOESN"T ADD UP!

I swear, that spreadsheet is **** and anyone who buys into warmogs being not worth it is ****.


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