Sejuani and female champs

First Riot Post
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Sgonzo

Senior Member

01-13-2012

vayne i find unattractive, irelia is not body type i enjoy, most of the ashe skins make her face look like she uses botox, i think only one of the kayle skins is truly attractive,


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PiggySaysWhat

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
We then have problems with whether we could tell her gender or not.
I do love ya IronStylus and I thought your post did a good job of explaining some of what can be forgotten about the process. It's good to remind people that you're often working from the "idealized" form and that ya know, it's just a picture, and you're not actively trying to be dismissive of your characters. Plus, it is your job and your working in the fantasy action genre.

But it was the above quote that summed up why I still have a gut reaction of annoyance with how ladies are often portrayed. It's that the way to identify a woman is through her breasts, even when there are lots of other identifying ques.

Then, beyond that, the second way to "easily" identify women is by putting them into revealing or demeaning outfits, hopefully to reveal said breasts, but mostly to emphasis their feminine qualities. It sometimes feels like the muppet syndrome. That is, you can have Cookie Monster but if you want his sister or girlfriend you have to make her pink, throw a bow in her hair, make her giggle and be a little stupid.

Which leads to the final point of does it matter to be 100% sure the character is male or female? I mean, really (as was mentioned) people make fun of Ezreal for being a girl and it isn't like you've suddenly given him giant muscles to compensate. Why would it be so soul shattering to have a female character like the original Kayle before she got boobs attached to her armor?

Why can't it simply be a character that is designed how the team likes it and if anyone is confused they can read the lore and look for the pronoun. People think Kennen is a girl and he has no ways to define himself either way...so why not actually make a female character the same way? Which isn't to say that a more streamlined or stereotypical character shouldn't exist....but when it becomes the majority it starts to look like you're trying to make a statement.

Here's what gets me though-----I think the other reason why I get a little passionate about it with Riot is because you guys are actually pretty awesome. I don't really fault BioWare or Sony or any other faceless corporation for endorsing and pushing less than amazing female characters. They are very much tied up in the problems of the video game industry and they're not in the business of redefining anything. Riot has been different though. You try to listen and support your players. You try to change the play experience into something greater than what it has been. So, why not make some changes in this respect? Why not try to redefine the possibilities for female characters?

I'm glad you're having fun, as are we (believe it or not, just because someone brings up a complaint or a concern doesn't mean they don't love LoL.) I love a lot of female characters you all have created and that includes Miss Fortune and Eve. I just think you guys are so smart and clever that you can come up with a female character that is attractive, likeable, and doesn't have her boobs on display


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loc View Post
Going to respond to DustySniper and Contagioned at once, since they're basically responding in the same way.

Being overly muscled is not what people thing is attractive. This is what men find attractive or assume that women find attractive. And you know what? Some women do like the lumberjack look, the body builder type. But ask a room full of women if they thing bulging biceps is attractive, and you're probably get a resounding "Grooss!"

In one of the articles I posted, the author addresses this directly with (as he said, very unscientific) poll about what women find attractive. The answers? Nightcrawler, Gambit, and David Bowie (as Gareth). They liked them for their charactization and only partially for their physical appearance, but at most each of them can be described as athletic at best.

My point is no one is trying to mack on Marcus Fenix, although guys seem to assume that they are.

And again, the intention behind the idealization for either gender is different. The tendency for idealized representations (in games and comics) is that for men it's to seem powerful, for women to be attractive to men.
All the "idealized" male characters in LoL are idealized for the male audience's sake. That is why they are disgustingly muscular; it's so the game can provide the male audience with a powerful character, not so the female audience can sexualize them. But look at all the female champs: they -are- sexualized.


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Bewm Hedshawt

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war!


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Gadalar

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Senior Member

01-13-2012

QQers wont ever be pleased.

In regards to body size and muscle mass.

Seems people want someone like Biscuit Krueger

http://youtu.be/8qcxtlOheb8

or Mute


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misterPlata

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Senior Member

01-13-2012

female gragas
gogoogogogogogogogogogo
ok just kidding, i also would like more variety in female body types. it gets boring to play as "****, The Female"

edit: wtf i cannot downvote myself


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MileyCyrusBAKING

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterPlata View Post
female gragas
gogoogogogogogogogogogo
ok just kidding, i also would like more variety in female body types. it gets boring to play as "****, The Female"
what the **** is Annie Orianna Poppy Tristana?!

Why do those females "NOT COUNT"??? God you ****ing suck


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lya View Post
I'm a girl and have been playing LoL since about 4-5 months after it came out of beta.
I read that entire Kotaku article and I agree with many points that the author made.

However, I too, prefer to play attractive champs. Now, just because I do prefer attractive female characters doesn't mean that I don't think the objectification of women in video games is not a problem, but in this point in time there is little that can be done.

Objectifying women in video games will never go away until society as a whole stops objectifying women. Why do I prefer attractive female champs? Because I have been conditioned my entire life to think that a woman's worth is much more based on physical appearance compared to a man's worth. This starts as soon as a child is able to comprehend. How do you compliment a little girl? Oh, you're so cute!! How do you compliment a little boy?? That's a great throw you got there.

Basically, I'm saying that while I agree with the basic argument that the OP suggested, I do not feel that it is in the best interest for Riot or games in general to stop objectifying women because we live in a society that does that every day. You can't remove it from this one industry if we are bombarded by that same message over and over again throughout our lives.
Media is powerful. Change has to start somewhere. Where do you think you learned that women have to be attractive? It wasn't just your older relatives. Media helped. If you think there is a problem, do something about it!


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Daemon

Senior Member

01-13-2012

I don't completely understand the "female champions need boobs or else you won't know their gender!" argument. A female could be flat-chested and we would know her gender by her voice. Does it really matter what she looks like? Also, you can tell genders by names.

If you saw Kayle and then you knew her name, you would know she's female because Kayle is a derivative of the common female name Kayla or Kaylee, etc.

However, Riot profits off of this "we are tired of skimpy females!" argument by making female champions somewhere in the middle and selling a skin to make them fully armored (Leona, Shyvana, Riven, most likely Sejuani from hints.)

Also, if Sejuani looked like this, I'd buy her (maybe not the hair, but the armor is awesome):


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contagioned View Post
Okay, say you're the character designer of Riot. You need to make an attractive male for them that is simply an object to look at, like all the women in this game apparently.

Will you not give him muscles and a possible six pack? None of the characters in LoL are Marcus Fenix status, anyways.

Also, Gambit has a six pack in almost every rendition (BEYOND athletic, mind you), Nightcrawler is pretty muscular in most renditions (at times beyond athletic), and David Bowie's weird always.

And your whole paragraph about the article argues that "males are shallow and women aren't," which isn't relevant.
So just because a male character created to be objectified will probably have muscles, that means all the muscular men in LoL are sexual objects for the female audience?