Sejuani and female champs

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ViashinoWizard

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contagioned View Post
Gragas is a humorous and obvious exception. Also, Ryze has a six-pack. Swain has pecs, if you look at his northern front skin. Malzahar has a six-pack, look at his djinn skin that shows his stomach. You cannot tell with most others if they are muscular or not. And Jax isn't human, not to mention he's muscular, look at the Jaximus skin.
The only obviously non-muscular ones are Ezreal, Master Yi, TF, and Singed. That's a complete minority, and purposeful to their playstyles, other than Singed.
That's not the point. They all have differing body types. Sejuani has the exact same body as every other human female champion after factoring out cup size.


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Contagioned

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViashinoWizard View Post
That's not the point. They all have differing body types. Sejuani has the exact same body as every other human female champion after factoring out cup size.
Since when do they all have different body sizes? They're all average sized muscular/fit human males, none being overbearing in anyway. Singed is the exception here, he simply doesn't have human proportions. Gragas is again an exception.


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DustySniper

Senior Member

01-12-2012

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Originally Posted by ViashinoWizard View Post
That's not the point. They all have differing body types. Sejuani has the exact same body as every other human female champion after factoring out cup size.
are you serious? All the males have pecs/6 packs and large bi ceps. The size may differ from champ to champ but it is all basically the same thing.


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General Farsight

Senior Member

01-12-2012

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Originally Posted by Loc View Post
Well, alright. Lets talk about male idealized representations. They're made to look strong, right? Physically powerful, capable? I don't think anyone would argue that these are anything but positive traits. They're mean to emphasize elements about the character or just imply a certain level of strength behind them.

But what about the women? Thin, wispy, and busty. These aren't inherently positive traits, these are "attractive" traits. They serve to objectify, not convey anything about the character, making them more an object served to the viewer than a (fictional) person.
You know, I have issues with this kind of argument, mostly because it completely ignores the personality and backstory of the character and focuses only on their appearance. It ignores the fact that Caitlyn, for example, is the sheriff of Piltover, a great shot and tracker and an excellent investigator and instead focuses only on her cleavage and short dress (and, oddly enough, doesn't forget the fact that Tryndamere is a powerfull barbarian king and does not complain about him going shirtless in the cold wastes of Freljord...).

Do note that I do not deny that there exists objectification of women, I just do not think it to be the case in League of Legends specifically simply because their backstories and personalities portray them as strong, powerfull women, and not simply as "objects served to the viewer".


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Loc

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Going to respond to DustySniper and Contagioned at once, since they're basically responding in the same way.

Being overly muscled is not what people thing is attractive. This is what men find attractive or assume that women find attractive. And you know what? Some women do like the lumberjack look, the body builder type. But ask a room full of women if they thing bulging biceps is attractive, and you're probably get a resounding "Grooss!"

In one of the articles I posted, the author addresses this directly with (as he said, very unscientific) poll about what women find attractive. The answers? Nightcrawler, Gambit, and David Bowie (as Gareth). They liked them for their charactization and only partially for their physical appearance, but at most each of them can be described as athletic at best.

My point is no one is trying to mack on Marcus Fenix, although guys seem to assume that they are.

And again, the intention behind the idealization for either gender is different. The tendency for idealized representations (in games and comics) is that for men it's to seem powerful, for women to be attractive to men.


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DustySniper

Senior Member

01-12-2012

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Originally Posted by General Farsight View Post
You know, I have issues with this kind of argument, mostly because it completely ignores the personality and backstory of the character and focuses only on their appearance. It ignores the fact that Caitlyn, for example, is the sheriff of Piltover, a great shot and tracker and an excellent investigator and instead focuses only on her cleavage and short dress (and, oddly enough, doesn't forget the fact that Tryndamere is a powerfull barbarian king and does not complain about him going shirtless in the cold wastes of Freljord...).

Do note that I do not deny that there exists objectification of women, I just do not think it to be the case in League of Legends specifically simply because their backstories and personalities portray them as strong, powerfull women, and not simply as "objects served to the viewer".
This man just point out something that made the OP look stupid. He himself objectified woman by only point out their bodies and forgetting the whole personality and back story of the woman and how strong they are. Cheers to you lol. This is a great and valid point.


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Alphonsio

Senior Member

01-12-2012

The complaint isn't that, "We hate sexy women." The complaint is that, in a game with already heavily stylized, unrealistic characters (Find me men with the exact same proportions as Mundo, Singed and Yorick.) most of our female champs are similarly built, cookie-cutter characters when it comes to looks. In general, we have less female champs, but all the ones that fit the "adult human female" description are thin waisted, busty and generally considered attractive.

It doesn't HAVE to be this way. Is there honestly anything truly wrong with it? No. But there are plenty of players, such as myself, who would like their fantasy game characters to be a bit more... Fantastical. Seeing so many characters with that same ideal body gets dull. We only have ONE non-humanoid female champion without any human traits (Anivia.) For male characters, we have plenty of animals and monsters, and even in the humanoid characters, the range of variety is much greater. Even looking solely at the "adult human males" many of them show clear differences. (Garen vs Twisted Fate vs Graves vs Jarvan) Sadly, our female champs don't share quite that trait, and some people are disappointed that we aren't getting more Yordles, more creatures and monsters. Even when it's a basic human character, not every single woman has to have the same build. Obviously the men in this game don't, so why do the women have to be boring and samey?

Of course, this is all a matter of opinion. Some people are just fine with it. There are plenty of people in the playerbase, however, who are not and would like Riot to take notice of what they would like to see in the game.


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Loc

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Farsight View Post
You know, I have issues with this kind of argument, mostly because it completely ignores the personality and backstory of the character and focuses only on their appearance. It ignores the fact that Caitlyn, for example, is the sheriff of Piltover, a great shot and tracker and an excellent investigator and instead focuses only on her cleavage and short dress (and, oddly enough, doesn't forget the fact that Tryndamere is a powerfull barbarian king and does not complain about him going shirtless in the cold wastes of Freljord...).

Do note that I do not deny that there exists objectification of women, I just do not think it to be the case in League of Legends specifically simply because their backstories and personalities portray them as strong, powerfull women, and not simply as "objects served to the viewer".
Really, that's the problem. Their purpose isn't to be eyecandy. They're not written or characterized that way in general. But when it comes to their visual design? Body types tend to default to the curvaceous and skinny, regardless of who they are.


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Lya

Member

01-12-2012

I'm a girl and have been playing LoL since about 4-5 months after it came out of beta.
I read that entire Kotaku article and I agree with many points that the author made.

However, I too, prefer to play attractive champs. Now, just because I do prefer attractive female characters doesn't mean that I don't think the objectification of women in video games is not a problem, but in this point in time there is little that can be done.

Objectifying women in video games will never go away until society as a whole stops objectifying women. Why do I prefer attractive female champs? Because I have been conditioned my entire life to think that a woman's worth is much more based on physical appearance compared to a man's worth. This starts as soon as a child is able to comprehend. How do you compliment a little girl? Oh, you're so cute!! How do you compliment a little boy?? That's a great throw you got there.

Basically, I'm saying that while I agree with the basic argument that the OP suggested, I do not feel that it is in the best interest for Riot or games in general to stop objectifying women because we live in a society that does that every day. You can't remove it from this one industry if we are bombarded by that same message over and over again throughout our lives.


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Contagioned

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loc View Post
Going to respond to DustySniper and Contagioned at once, since they're basically responding in the same way.

Being overly muscled is not what people thing is attractive. This is what men find attractive or assume that women find attractive. And you know what? Some women do like the lumberjack look, the body builder type. But ask a room full of women if they thing bulging biceps is attractive, and you're probably get a resounding "Grooss!"

In one of the articles I posted, the author addresses this directly with (as he said, very unscientific) poll about what women find attractive. The answers? Nightcrawler, Gambit, and David Bowie (as Gareth). They liked them for their charactization and only partially for their physical appearance, but at most each of them can be described as athletic at best.

My point is no one is trying to mack on Marcus Fenix, although guys seem to assume that they are.

And again, the intention behind the idealization for either gender is different. The tendency is that for men it's to seem powerful, for women to be attractive to men.
Okay, say you're the character designer of Riot. You need to make an attractive male for them that is simply an object to look at, like all the women in this game apparently.

Will you not give him muscles and a possible six pack? None of the characters in LoL are Marcus Fenix status, anyways.

Also, Gambit has a six pack in almost every rendition (BEYOND athletic, mind you), Nightcrawler is pretty muscular in most renditions (at times beyond athletic), and David Bowie's weird always.

And your whole paragraph about the article argues that "males are shallow and women aren't," which isn't relevant.