Change Camera Lock (Y) to Center Camera On Champion

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Verosce

Senior Member

12-07-2011

I forced myself to play with the spacebar instead of toggling lock and unlock. It'd be nice if that did show up in the tutorial.

(if anyone doesn't know, holding spacebar locks the camera, but releasing it will immediately unlock the camera)


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Arcie McLean

Member

12-07-2011

Ok, I see a lot of thoughts being repeated and ignored or brushed aside. I have seen a couple people other than myself say they would love to see a relative position lock (good name). A lot of people are saying they used locked camera, never thought they'd change but then realized the game gimped them for using a locked camera. To me, a locked camera should have more options to even the playing field. With a relative position lock, it's possible to get the range most characters need in the direction they need it. Yeah, it's more complicated than the poorly designed solid lock camera, but it's still more flexible to gameplay then the unlocked. Most people that play locked do so because they can't keep track of moving the camera, map awareness, moving the champion, and fighting. Set the camera locked in a position that you have the space in front of your champion you want and then focus on the game.

Now, not everyone's brain works the same. There are a reason some people are RTSers and some people are FPSers and some people are RPGers, etc. So handling this like the free camera is just something everyone can learn as opposed to people not being able to learn to see red and green again is a bit of a shallow argument. Yes there are players who can micromanage incredibly well. If LoL had multi-unit champs, like I know some of the competition have, I know people that would rock those characters. I would not be one of them. My brain doesn't work that way. It's not about practice, its about how I function. I am more comfortable focusing on the fight than the camera. Keeping map presence with an interactive minimap isn't hard with a fixed camera and for people like me, it's easier. I spend less time fidgeting with my mouse, paying attention to whether my character is overrunning where I told him to go, focusing on 2 different movements and I can really spend time watching the map. If only I could lock that **** camera so my character wasn't centered!

Look, the focus on this solution should be creating a viable alternative style of play. Yes locked camera is gimped. How can it be ungimped without imbalancing the two playstyles as much as possible? There are a lot of player solutions here to consider, most of which are not impossible to add. The relative camera lock should be a quick solution. It would be great to see this on the test server just to see how people like it. As it stands, most camera locked players shift to free camera because of the restrictions the developers place on that style. You do this because you don't think its a legitimate playstyle, but who are you to judge how other people prefer to play? It won't kill the game to consider improving this mode, and it certainly won't take much of your extremely busy lives. Just sayin.

-Arcie

PS, Color Blind Fix: Green Circles under allies, Red X's under enemies. The solution to color blind friendly programs is shapes. AoEs could have the X through the circle (which would certainly help non-color blind players as well). Aesthetically it wouldn't detract from the game and early recognition would be quicker for both color-blind players as well as non-color-blind players.

PPS, The other thing I forgot to mention was that I am still advocating for a more comfortable click-drag camera movement instead of the current click-scroll that feels so awkward. Again, look at any new touch screen technology. Tablets, iPods, cell phones, they all use a click-drag movement system, the map scroll middle-click should work exactly the same.

PPPS, Awkward is a very awkward word to type...


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Zielmann

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verosce View Post
I forced myself to play with the spacebar instead of toggling lock and unlock. It'd be nice if that did show up in the tutorial.

(if anyone doesn't know, holding spacebar locks the camera, but releasing it will immediately unlock the camera)
I actually accidentally (re)discovered this a couple weeks ago. My old keyboard was low-profile, so I didn't have to really hold my hands off the keyboard to actively prevent hitting the spacebar on accident.

New keyboard is a standard one, and sits much higher on top of the desk. Then the keys stick up extra far. I had to put the wrist rest thing on the front of it to prevent accidentally hitting space. I messed up a few Taric flash-stuns by accidentally hitting the spacebar in there with my left thumb. Completely disoriented me during the fight.


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Scram Racecar

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Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Re: color blindess, I would say the effect is much more negative for almost all color blind players so the impact of the severity and the number of people it affects makes it an issue that I want to fix very much. It is also something that we provide no alternative solution for, it's not like they can just practice really hard and see red/green again! Not being able to see who's friendly and who's the enemy is really not fun.
So does this mean that a colorblind mode is currently in the works? I hope so..


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Dragonglove

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Senior Member

12-07-2011

Just saw this and wanted to chime in since I am a camera locked player. When I started, I had not played Dota, but I had played many RTS's and several top-down RPG's. Camera Locked felt more natural in the beginning especially since what I was looking for in the game was basically Neverwinter Nights (obviously it's a very different game, but I couldn't really tell what the future held in my first few matches). I do go to camera unlocked anytime I need clear vision of a distance away. It's only a keypress and I can easiliy move back.

The main difference once you reach a good understanding of the game is how you think of your cursor. Skillshots are simple to me because I always know exactly where my character is on screen, and every player, minion, and action is a direction around me.

Ugh, I thought this would be easy but I can't describe it. I know unlocked is better in teamfights, since you can keep your camera on the entire fight regardless of where you move. But in high action situations, I always feel like I can react quickly because clicking in the upper right area of the screen will always move me to the upper right. I wish I could explain it better, but that's my opinion.


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Zielmann

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcie McLean View Post
Ok, I see a lot of thoughts being repeated and ignored or brushed aside. I have seen a couple people other than myself say they would love to see a relative position lock (good name). A lot of people are saying they used locked camera, never thought they'd change but then realized the game gimped them for using a locked camera. To me, a locked camera should have more options to even the playing field. With a relative position lock, it's possible to get the range most characters need in the direction they need it. Yeah, it's more complicated than the poorly designed solid lock camera, but it's still more flexible to gameplay then the unlocked. Most people that play locked do so because they can't keep track of moving the camera, map awareness, moving the champion, and fighting. Set the camera locked in a position that you have the space in front of your champion you want and then focus on the game.

Now, not everyone's brain works the same. There are a reason some people are RTSers and some people are FPSers and some people are RPGers, etc. So handling this like the free camera is just something everyone can learn as opposed to people not being able to learn to see red and green again is a bit of a shallow argument. Yes there are players who can micromanage incredibly well. If LoL had multi-unit champs, like I know some of the competition have, I know people that would rock those characters. I would not be one of them. My brain doesn't work that way. It's not about practice, its about how I function. I am more comfortable focusing on the fight than the camera. Keeping map presence with an interactive minimap isn't hard with a fixed camera and for people like me, it's easier. I spend less time fidgeting with my mouse, paying attention to whether my character is overrunning where I told him to go, focusing on 2 different movements and I can really spend time watching the map. If only I could lock that **** camera so my character wasn't centered!

Look, the focus on this solution should be creating a viable alternative style of play. Yes locked camera is gimped. How can it be ungimped without imbalancing the two playstyles as much as possible? There are a lot of player solutions here to consider, most of which are not impossible to add. The relative camera lock should be a quick solution. It would be great to see this on the test server just to see how people like it. As it stands, most camera locked players shift to free camera because of the restrictions the developers place on that style. You do this because you don't think its a legitimate playstyle, but who are you to judge how other people prefer to play? It won't kill the game to consider improving this mode, and it certainly won't take much of your extremely busy lives. Just sayin.

-Arcie

PS, Color Blind Fix: Green Circles under allies, Red X's under enemies. The solution to color blind friendly programs is shapes. AoEs could have the X through the circle (which would certainly help non-color blind players as well). Aesthetically it wouldn't detract from the game and early recognition would be quicker for both color-blind players as well as non-color-blind players.

PPS, The other thing I forgot to mention was that I am still advocating for a more comfortable click-drag camera movement instead of the current click-scroll that feels so awkward. Again, look at any new touch screen technology. Tablets, iPods, cell phones, they all use a click-drag movement system, the map scroll middle-click should work exactly the same.

PPPS, Awkward is a very awkward word to type...
I realize that not everybody thinks/works the same. And that's a good thing. If they did, there would be no reason to have such a diverse champion lineup, right? But I also can't help but look at it simply as muscle memory. And we all have that. It becomes second-nature exactly how much you have to move the mouse where and when to look at what. You are already moving the mouse around the screen a bunch as it is.

The argument isn't necessarily that 'locked is bad' or that it should be removed now that it's part of the game. Removing it at this point would only cause problems for the few who still use it. What we're saying is why new players should be more exposed to the unlocked camera early. You would still have the option to choose, but you would avoid the very issue that the OP brought up. It doesn't really make sense for the 'default' to be the mode that is ultimately used by a very small number of players. It creates situations where you do have to re-learn the game to an extent, which is very frustrating. And this was exactly the OP's point in this thread.

Now, could locked camera be modified some to make it... more comparable in a usability/gameplay point of view? Sure. But the changes also aren't going to be as easy as you make them sound. It would be a major change to a part of the UI, and require a lot of time in testing even after it gets completed to make sure it truly is comparable to playing on an unlocked screen (with no accidental advantages to it, such as added field of view or better viewing angle). Locked camera has been a feature since I've played (closed beta), so the code for that is also going to be pretty old. Based off other things I've heard about the old code, it sounds like some of it is a bit ugly. That would make any modifications even more difficult.


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IS1429332aa9b633

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I don't think changes to camera angle or FOV are likely to pass muster either, we limit zoom out and control the view angle so players with the money to buy larger monitors/faster video cards/higher resolution don't have an advantage.
it's already the case. People with 16:9 monitor can see more stuff than people with 4:3.


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Zielmann

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syl SGM View Post
it's already the case. People with 16:9 monitor can see more stuff than people with 4:3.
I have one of each. And I play on the 4:3. Partially because that's the monitor I started off with, so it's what I'm used to. But also partially because of something related to what is being discussed in this thread.

I don't like to have to move my mouse very much at all. I keep the sensitivity pretty high. I never have to move it more than 3/4" to get from one side of the screen to the other, and that's moving it relatively slow across the screen. When I go widescreen, suddenly it takes a lot more movement to get from left to right than from top to bottom.

But the main thing to keep in mind with this 'advantage' of widescreen is that you are still limited by fog of war. And then there's the mini-map. If you have the jungle warded to watch for a gank, you are most likely not sitting there with that part of the map on your screen anyhow. You see the gank coming because the ward makes them show up on your mini map.


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Aniello

Senior Member

12-08-2011

I can tell you, I wouldn't play this game without Locked Camera.

The day I will get a third hand to move my camera, I will.

I rather have my mouse busy targeting than moving my camera at the borders of screen.


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DoctorMcPain

Senior Member

12-08-2011

I think everyone should learn to play with both locked and unlocked camera. There are advantages in both cases, and learning how to manage your camera efficiently is part of the mechanical skill ceiling in this game.