To those of you who are *****ing about the jungle:

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Parcheeseey

Member

11-30-2011

It's not broken, just mildly unbalanced.
I see 9/10 junglers fail now, because they are using old routes, slow junglers, or just don't know how/when to gank. Not all champions are viable for jungling anymore, at least not effectively.
The most common complaint is that the new jungle just makes the game more passive because "you can't gank without losing levels". If you are losing too many levels, you're doing something wrong. Change your route. I usually start at red buff and, like phreak suggested, a level 2 gank on top or bot, depending on which side i'm on. I don't try to kill if i know i can't do it, and definitely dont towerdive. The point of the gank is mostly to pop their summoner spells while also scaring and/or harassing them, and every now and then an early kill.

Then, either b, or golems-wraithes to clear up that side. then go b if you haven't already done so. GET BOOTS, and go straight to clear wolves/blue.
EFFECTIVE JUNGLE ROUTE: red>gank>golems>wraiths>b (BOOTS!!)>wolves>blue>gank>wraithes>golems>GANK>b (wriggles or MOAR BOOTS)

I can't stress enough how much you need BOOTS with the new jungle. Faster respawns = chaos trying to keep the jungle cleared. BOOTS will keep you equal or maybe higher level than bot and possibly top/mid. Early BOOTS will give you advantages in ganks, which you will be doing all the time. BOOTS = SUCCESS!
You can tell what junglers are good based on whether they need a leash or not on blue/red. Good ones will not need it now (though it is still helpful for keeping ur health high for an early gank). Aoe abilities now overpower ganking abilities, like stuns or pulls or slows, because SPEED > CC for junglers. If you are fast enough to clear the jungle before everything respawns, you will stay at a higher level AND STILL HAVE TIME TO GANK CONSTANTLY WITHOUT LOSING LEVELS!!

TL;DR: CHANGE YOUR ROUTES!!!! LINEAR = FAST AND EFFECTIVE
CHANGE YOUR CHAMPS!! AOE/SPEED > CC! (double (full) boots as early as possible, BEFORE wriggles!)
EARLY BOOTS!
Jungle with any ad character with aoe and good jungling abilities.
AND FINALLY: GANK CONSTANTLY!


EDIT: To Dmon3y26: Yes, there are routes that work well, like the one i specified above. You have to think of the jungle as chunks. Top chunk and bottom chunk. Always have one cleared, and always gank the corresponding lane after you clear it if you can. Once you find yourself ganking constantly instead of jungling, wait until the buff respawns in that section of the jungle to clear it, and instead push a lane for xp/gold or something while the other people in the lane b for items. If the ganks are failing all the time, you are doing something wrong. Make sure you get boots early for a good advantage, and your teammates are aware of what is going on. The new jungle is all about how quick you can clear it and gank, because if you find yourself jungling slowly, find a new champion to play.
Also, I forgot to mention that I don't believe the jungle is necessarily fair. Certain junglers that used to be very viable and good picks are now ****, and this limits the variety of champions that will be successful. Never said I approve of the changes, just telling you guys how to be successful.


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Dmon3y26

Senior Member

11-30-2011

Theres currentley no new routes that flow well, Also if you Gank constantly like you said, If those ganks fail. You get to far behind.


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CharginMahLazers

Senior Member

11-30-2011

I've tried jungling with a variety of champions in this new patch and I have to say, I disagree with you. Ganking leaves you way too far behind. There is no incentive for ganking, nor counterjungling, nor doing anything but trying to jungling down linear camps.

They've made jungling so passive now. The only junglers I've seen successful as of late have been Lee Sin. Even Udyr is underleveled when he rushes out of the jungle to gank.

Also, wasn't this new jungling idea created so that lower level summoners can jungle without runes and with a wider variety of champions? Welp, I call BS. Champions with AOEs or you're behind by 1-3 levels.


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Stippy

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by XDarkzz View Post
I've tried jungling with a variety of champions in this new patch and I have to say, I disagree with you. Ganking leaves you way too far behind. There is no incentive for ganking, nor counterjungling, nor doing anything but trying to jungling down linear camps.
While the new patch has made it riskier to gank, it is still necessary. If a jungle isn't ganking then its better if he were to just help dominate the top lane. Slightly less gold and exp for the team but at least its a guaranteed lane win. Also a jungle that never ganks is hard to consider a deturrent for the enemy lanes to make aggresive moves.

Also, counterjungling lives. While small camps arent that important, WAY more emphasis is on stealing the buff camps. Figure out which one your opponent did at start of game, and be there round seven minutes.

With the small camps less of a gain the buffs being stolen is a big hit.


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Parcheeseey

Member

12-01-2011

Ganking WILL NOT MAKE YOU LOSE LEVELS. If you do it right, you will catch them when they are overextended, and if you followed my jungle route you WILL be at least a level higher than bot when you gank, as well as have red buff and possibly blue, which will almost guarantee a good, successful gank. If you find you are losing levels, either YOUR JUNGLER ISNT FAST ENOUGH, you aren't following my route, or you are staying too long in a bush/ in the lane before and after the gank. DONT WAIT IN BUSHES!!!! If you have to wait in a bush, it isnt worth the gank. After the gank, go immediately back to jungling.
Also, like I said, early boots will make jungling quicker and you will have A LOT more successful ganks up until the enemy also have boots. Get them as early as possible.


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KAMUKAMU

Junior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcheeseey View Post
Ganking WILL NOT MAKE YOU LOSE LEVELS. If you do it right, you will catch them when they are overextended, and if you followed my jungle route you WILL be at least a level higher than bot when you gank, as well as have red buff and possibly blue, which will almost guarantee a good, successful gank. If you find you are losing levels, either YOUR JUNGLER ISNT FAST ENOUGH, you aren't following my route, or you are staying too long in a bush/ in the lane before and after the gank. DONT WAIT IN BUSHES!!!! If you have to wait in a bush, it isnt worth the gank. After the gank, go immediately back to jungling.
Also, like I said, early boots will make jungling quicker and you will have A LOT more successful ganks up until the enemy also have boots. Get them as early as possible.
You think that they always overextend? I used Shaco and they would pull lanes after 2 to 3 kills, and there will be no chance in that situation but keep farming in jungle. But the exp in jungle is too low that I was under-leveled just because there was no opportunity for ganking, although I had successful ganks in early game.


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Arklorn

Junior Member

12-01-2011

you WILL fall behind and your team mates WILL scream at you...the new jungle if left as is will force a 2 top / 2 bot game down your throat


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Parcheeseey

Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAMUKAMU View Post
You think that they always overextend? I used Shaco and they would pull lanes after 2 to 3 kills, and there will be no chance in that situation but keep farming in jungle. But the exp in jungle is too low that I was under-leveled just because there was no opportunity for ganking, although I had successful ganks in early game.
If this is the case, ask your teammates to pull back the lane themselves. A successful gank can happen even if their lane isn't overextended, but in the middle. Just like the old jungle, even if your enemies aren't completely stupid and don't push, you can still gank them and IT IS NECESSARY! Get your teammates to harras them hard if they are turret hugging, and if you chose to grab flash, simply go around behind their turret while your allies run at them from the other side. Quickly get a kill, and flash out without taking more than 2 or 3 hits from the turret. IF you teammates suck and don't know how to harras, stalk the enemy jungler. Wait around a freshly spawned red or blue buff and either scare him away or kill him, take his buff, and go back to your own jungle to grab whatever just respawned. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OPPORTUNITIES TO GANK SOMEONE on the map.

Also, to everyone else that keeps saying that they fall behind:
a) have you tried my route?
b) who are you jungling as?
Shaco isn't a good jungler anymore. His ganks may be ok early game, but he can't clear it fast enough and an entire ability is based around waiting in a bush, which is either a waste of xp for you while you wait for an opportunity to gank in a bush or a waste of a skill that could otherwise be used to clear the jungle faster and make ganking outside of bushes much more successful.


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TheOneMillion

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcheeseey View Post
If this is the case, ask your teammates to pull back the lane themselves. A successful gank can happen even if their lane isn't overextended, but in the middle. Just like the old jungle, even if your enemies aren't completely stupid and don't push, you can still gank them and IT IS NECESSARY! Get your teammates to harras them hard if they are turret hugging, and if you chose to grab flash, simply go around behind their turret while your allies run at them from the other side. Quickly get a kill, and flash out without taking more than 2 or 3 hits from the turret. IF you teammates suck and don't know how to harras, stalk the enemy jungler. Wait around a freshly spawned red or blue buff and either scare him away or kill him, take his buff, and go back to your own jungle to grab whatever just respawned. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OPPORTUNITIES TO GANK SOMEONE on the map.

Also, to everyone else that keeps saying that they fall behind:
a) have you tried my route?
b) who are you jungling as?
Shaco isn't a good jungler anymore. His ganks may be ok early game, but he can't clear it fast enough and an entire ability is based around waiting in a bush, which is either a waste of xp for you while you wait for an opportunity to gank in a bush or a waste of a skill that could otherwise be used to clear the jungle faster and make ganking outside of bushes much more successful.


Wasnt the whole point of the new jungle to open it up to more champs? and not LESS champs?


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Emeraldw

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneMillion View Post
Wasnt the whole point of the new jungle to open it up to more champs? and not LESS champs?
More champions CAN jungle, but I think he means that only a few excel at it right now. Mainly hyper fast clears like Skarner & Udyr.


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