Volibear Patch Preview: Gameplay Changes

First Riot Post
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Zileas

VP of Game Design

11-25-2011
2 of 11 Riot Posts

Hey Guys,

On the jungle changes, they have been tested extensively by pro players internally and externally. We used the public testing environments a lot for this, and have been testing them in the internal balance team for a very long time.

We would not be making these changes if we weren't confident they were going to make the game better for everyone. I know it's scary because you can't really know without playing them, but we wouldn't be making them if we weren't sure they were a good idea. And if we are ultimately wrong, we will change them.

Morello mentioned accessibility to low level summoners as one goal, but the largest goal was actually aggression as it relates to lanes against lanes, and junglers ganking lanes, and making that create a more active early game. The low-level accessibility was something we were able to add in as a bonus as part of the rest of the changes we were doing. Jungling well is still very difficult compared to jungling poorly. However, doing it poorly is no longer complete fail, just bad.

Anyway, the bottom line is, it either works or it doesn't. Our testing shows it works. You guys will be able to see that it works when it is out. If it doesn't work, obviously we will change it.


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My Duo Is Asian

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Junior Member

11-25-2011

HELLZ YEAH, cant wait to try new jungle


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Aluminar

Senior Member

11-25-2011

morello needs to stop forgetting this isnt CoD


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Sirensongs

Junior Member

11-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhieron View Post
Let's encourage aggression by ...

Wait a second. You're trying to get people to be more aggressive by punishing their sustainability? I'm not sure I see this. If my health potions won't actually heal me meaningfully anymore, I'm not going to decide to take more risks. I'm going to blue pill more often and look for an alternative to potions. I'm going to hug my tower more because I know getting poked is something I can't recover from, and I'd rather be pushed out of lane than killed. I'll just buy Health Regen, Life steal, or mitigation stats instead. Or better yet, I'll play more champs that have abilities that give me those things.

The minion damage change is a good one; nothing is more demoralizing than being killed because the enemy minion line is in a better position to protect their champ than yours is. That said, if you want to make the game more aggressive, you have to make the consequences of success more rewarding and the consequences of failure less punishing. The change to death timers several patches ago was a start, but even after that change, I still feel like teleport is mandatory for one of the champs in a two man lane, because a successful gank at any time after level one or two will mean that the turret falls.

I guess I say that to say I just frankly disagree with your vision for the game. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of having esports waved in my face like a giant *****. It's offensive, and I think these changes are more about marketing and less about the overall health of the game. You want the game to be more entertaining for people who are watching, but at the same time I think you're making the game progressively more frustrating for people actually playing.

When Vlad was nerfed, there was a great deal of in my opinion extremely meaningful discussion about player decision-making in gameplay, and I appreciated that conversation for it even though I think the nerf was a slap in the face to Vlad players (and said as much at the time). Well what happened to that? I thought the company line was that players should have more and better choices? Making potions less useful is removing a choice. Maybe this is a totally insignificant change, but since we're still not actually testing, I have to assume the worst and argue accordingly.

If, however, my worst fears fail to materialize, I think we're still looking at a symptom of a more systemic problem. You're trying to twist players' arms to make the game more aggressive, yet you've done nothing significant to actually alter the mechanics of the game to encourage aggression. Last hitting is still the name of the game--guaranteed creep score is always a better option than a risk at a kill, especially since the consequences if that risk fails to materialize are pretty dire. That is to say, if you want to actually fundamentally change the way players in the lane behave, you have to actually change the fundamentals of laning.

That means minions need to matter less, death needs to matter less, and killing other players needs to matter more. Even though I feel like Dominion is a catastrophic failure on the whole, there are some definite things to learn from it, and if your goal is to make champion play on SR more like that, you have to carry some of those things over. Minions need to be less important; if I forego killing minions to harass and try to get a kill instead, I shouldn't be completely wrecked if it doesn't work out. Similarly, if I take a chance and die, I shouldn't come back to my lane to find myself down two levels and completely zoned out for the rest of the phase.

The counter-argument is, "Well that's the cost of the risk; you could have won and then it would be the other guy in that situation," right? Right! So play passively instead. I realize this change is aimed at moving the line between "maybe a kill" and "guaranteed kill (or at least out of lane)" from where it currently is, but as long as the base mechanics remain unaltered, the incentives remain where they are. They shift around a little--depending on the numbers, I'll probably leave base with fewer potions from now on--but my laning behavior isn't going to change at all. If anything, I'll be even more passive, because now I'm not packing any potions, and I don't have a Flash anymore.



I agree. Finally someone who knows something about good games. Kudos


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Da Real AB

Senior Member

11-25-2011

So the big thing that helped Nidalee win her lanes was her sustainability. This just seems like another massive slap in the face to her.


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Beastail

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Senior Member

11-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahares View Post
Welcome to the League of Legends Patch Preview, summoners! This edition of the Patch Preview is short but important, as multiple major changes are inside! Sivir is getting a remake, the jungle is receiving a significant update, and we’re making a number of changes that should change your priorities in lane. To get a forward look into the next gameplay update, take a look at the Patch Preview!

[turley]kUgIZCij-dw[/turley]

[URL2="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUgIZCij-dw"]Head to the video on YouTube to change your subtitles. Remember to comment on the video and subscribe to the Riot Games YouTube channel![/URL2]
With the changes to the laning minions, Are you going to look to rework Evelynn's passive. Since it already reduces the damage they deal.


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Smoothping

Senior Member

11-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Hey Guys,

On the jungle changes, they have been tested extensively by pro players internally and externally. We used the public testing environments a lot for this, and have been testing them in the internal balance team for a very long time.

We would not be making these changes if we weren't confident they were going to make the game better for everyone. I know it's scary because you can't really know without playing them, but we completely understand the risk associated with a change like this, and are not making it lightly.

Morello mentioned accessibility to low level summoners as one goal, but the largest goal was actually aggression as it relates to lanes against lanes, and junglers ganking lanes, and making that create a more active early game. The low-level accessibility was something we were able to add in as a bonus as part of the rest of the changes we were doing. Jungling well is still very difficult compared to jungling poorly. However, doing it poorly is no longer complete fail, just bad.

Anyway, the bottom line is, it either works or it doesn't. Our testing shows it works. You guys will be able to see that it works when it is out. If it doesn't work, obviously we will change it.
Jungle changes are k but why nerf minions and healing pots?


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Showdang

Senior Member

11-25-2011

I'm sorry but this has to be the worst patch in the history of the game.

I'll just attack the enemy any time I want now instead of playing smart because the minion wave can't hurt me anymore.

Nerfed jungle creeps lol really?

This is so bad


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Dakirokor

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Junior Member

11-25-2011

You know its a good patch when there are triple the number of dislike


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Reynmaker

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Senior Member

11-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Hey Guys,

On the jungle changes, they have been tested extensively by pro players internally and externally. We used the public testing environments a lot for this, and have been testing them in the internal balance team for a very long time.

We would not be making these changes if we weren't confident they were going to make the game better for everyone. I know it's scary because you can't really know without playing them, but we completely understand the risk associated with a change like this, and are not making it lightly.

Morello mentioned accessibility to low level summoners as one goal, but the largest goal was actually aggression as it relates to lanes against lanes, and junglers ganking lanes, and making that create a more active early game. The low-level accessibility was something we were able to add in as a bonus as part of the rest of the changes we were doing. Jungling well is still very difficult compared to jungling poorly. However, doing it poorly is no longer complete fail, just bad.

Anyway, the bottom line is, it either works or it doesn't. Our testing shows it works. You guys will be able to see that it works when it is out. If it doesn't work, obviously we will change it.
Once a couple players start whining, you know it's gonna snowball Zileas. The first page of this thread shows the type of people you have to cater to. I don't envy your job for a second.

The hive mind has spoken.