Chogath is Top-Tier (Again): The Definitive Guide by 5HITCOMBO

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Predien

Member

06-28-2010

Thanks ****combo.


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

06-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saavedra View Post
Do you build differently if you're the only tank on your team? Or do you consider Cho to be a poor choice for the primary tank role and just pick someone else?
It depends on team composition. Cho has a built-in tank skill and if you play safely by the time your team needs a tank you'll have Warmog's and you'll be building towards Guardian. With a GA and a Warmog's AND a Zhonya's with ghost/cleanse it's pretty hard to kill you unless you're caught way out of position with no support at all. Sometimes, even though you're out of position, if your support gets there in time you can actually ambush them as they gank you by hitting a sick rupture/silence/feast while your team comes in. Usually you want a dedicated initiator, and if you have that you can be the tank naturally. If you don't have an initiator it's a little harder, you really have to wait for them to make a mistake and you really don't want to be tanking if they're initiating on you. You can take a few hits but you're not invincible like Alistar and you can't initiate like Amumu/Rammus.


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

06-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by predien View Post
thanks ****combo.
lol really does my name say that? Couldn't have been intentional lol!!!!!


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J122

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Senior Member

06-28-2010

After testing some stuff out, I think Raduin's + some other armor items make Cho harder to kill than Warmog's. And if you don't go AP and just tank, Raduin's active can slow for a longggg time (5+ seconds in my last game).


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Vrtra Theory

Member

06-29-2010

Good job on this guide, tried out a variation of this build last night after having been on hiatus from Cho for a long time, was pretty fun.

In essence, my plan going in was to build Boots of Swiftness + Zhonya's Ring, then build 2 defense items, and then start building AP items as necessary. I chose to build GA and Aegis, as I felt those would be stronger than building health (although I did buy a Giant's Belt next as the first part of Rylai's).

Anyway, I started crunching some numbers afterwards to "prove" how crappy Warmog's is, but what I came up with makes Warmog's look OK.

Code:
Base Stats         0 Gold  2810 HP    84 AR   30 MR    5170/3653 EHP
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Guardian/BV     5315 Gold  3260 HP   152 AR  125 MR    8215/7335 EHP
Warmog/Aegis    5060 Gold  4300 HP   114 AR   69 MR    9202/7267 EHP
2xBelt/GA       4820 Gold  3670 HP   152 AR   68 MR    9248/6165 EHP
Thornmail/BV    4715 Gold  3260 HP   184 AR   87 MR    9258/6096 EHP
Aegis/BV        4640 Gold  3530 HP   114 AR  126 MR    7554/7977 EHP
GA/Aegis        4525 Gold  3080 HP   182 AR  107 MR    8685/6375 EHP
2xBelt/Aegis    4145 Gold  3940 HP   114 AR   69 MR    8431/6658 EHP
I tried to keep all these pieces within the 4-5k range, obviously if you go above this range (with, say, Warmog/GA, Warmog/BV, etc.) you may reach even higher EHP numbers. I still feel GA/Aegis is one of the better overall defensive combos, especially if you build health as part of your next AP item. The above doesn't tell the whole story either, what with BV's spell block and Warmog's extra HP regen, etc.

Also, as far as I can tell, Cho isn't hitting 5K health unless you are spending a lot of cash on HP only. Maybe that's a viable plan, but that ventures into pure tank territory, and you'd better be building plenty of MR, since everybody's response will be to build bloodrazors.

One final note: I was interested in trying the Mejai/Leviathan build, but based on my game last night, I may be skipping it. The instinct to not lose Feast stacks is already strong enough, if I was worrying about Mejai and Leviathan stacks too, it would be tougher to stay in the frontlines. Better to take the death and protect your carry's snowball items than have your own, imo.


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Basist

Senior Member

06-29-2010

I dunno's about all of you, but I find Nashor's Tooth to be ultra sexy on Cho. Small chunk of ap, the only mana regen item he'll need especially in those stalemates where he can't farm minions for that mana. Another is the 50% aspd which brings him up to a subtle 1.0+, that makes his vorpal spikes actually do decent damage with some ap from decent hitting speeds.

Last but not least, that 25% cd. Oh yes, that is baller right there. With both CD's grabbed in offensive and defensive, stacked onto Nashors, Cho can get a very sexy 38% CD. What does that mean? 30 second Nom Noms is what. Sure people will be like "Oh you can just go full tank/ap with Cho and he'll be so much better. What really makes Cho an awesome contributer to team fights though? I'll tell you: His ability to rupture/scream spam the **** out of them, and then bite their faces right off every 30 seconds is what.

There's no more "Oh hold up guys my feast isn't up," or "Oh **** if only rupture was 1 second quicker in cd I could've interrupted that guy for my teammate to finish him off." Oh well, people have their own perogatives, mine is Nashor's Tooth....mmmmmm


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SwampZero

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrtra Theory View Post
Good job on this guide, tried out a variation of this build last night after having been on hiatus from Cho for a long time, was pretty fun.

In essence, my plan going in was to build Boots of Swiftness + Zhonya's Ring, then build 2 defense items, and then start building AP items as necessary. I chose to build GA and Aegis, as I felt those would be stronger than building health (although I did buy a Giant's Belt next as the first part of Rylai's).

Anyway, I started crunching some numbers afterwards to "prove" how crappy Warmog's is, but what I came up with makes Warmog's look OK.

Code:
Base Stats         0 Gold  2810 HP    84 AR   30 MR    5170/3653 EHP
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Guardian/BV     5315 Gold  3260 HP   152 AR  125 MR    8215/7335 EHP
Warmog/Aegis    5060 Gold  4300 HP   114 AR   69 MR    9202/7267 EHP
2xBelt/GA       4820 Gold  3670 HP   152 AR   68 MR    9248/6165 EHP
Thornmail/BV    4715 Gold  3260 HP   184 AR   87 MR    9258/6096 EHP
Aegis/BV        4640 Gold  3530 HP   114 AR  126 MR    7554/7977 EHP
GA/Aegis        4525 Gold  3080 HP   182 AR  107 MR    8685/6375 EHP
2xBelt/Aegis    4145 Gold  3940 HP   114 AR   69 MR    8431/6658 EHP
I tried to keep all these pieces within the 4-5k range, obviously if you go above this range (with, say, Warmog/GA, Warmog/BV, etc.) you may reach even higher EHP numbers. I still feel GA/Aegis is one of the better overall defensive combos, especially if you build health as part of your next AP item. The above doesn't tell the whole story either, what with BV's spell block and Warmog's extra HP regen, etc.

Also, as far as I can tell, Cho isn't hitting 5K health unless you are spending a lot of cash on HP only. Maybe that's a viable plan, but that ventures into pure tank territory, and you'd better be building plenty of MR, since everybody's response will be to build bloodrazors.

One final note: I was interested in trying the Mejai/Leviathan build, but based on my game last night, I may be skipping it. The instinct to not lose Feast stacks is already strong enough, if I was worrying about Mejai and Leviathan stacks too, it would be tougher to stay in the frontlines. Better to take the death and protect your carry's snowball items than have your own, imo.
can you run the numbers again, this time have a column that adds the last 2 EHP values together, and include items such as Sunfire, Randuin, Chain Mail, Force of Nature, etc in combinations?


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BRETT F4VRE

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Member

06-29-2010

eh

i dont believe there is a set build for any char, especially cho

cho is the single best char imo, tank + rip your fkn face off fgt, no to mention insane team fighting ability... rupture and a silence? not to mention his ult which pretty much makes any carry either: A) dead or B) run in either fear of getting hit with it or the fact that they have about 50 health left and your scream is off CD


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Yeah, it's not a set build, but rushing Zhonya's is definitely strong on Chogath. Your Ruptures and Feast instantly hit for +200 and Scream gets like +160 and on top of that you get a 2 second invulnerability against things like Kat's ult, Fiddle's ult, Karthus' ult, Gangplank's ult... you get the idea.

Thanks for running those numbers! The thing to remember about Chogath is that his Feast gives you more HP as it levels, and I'm not sure exactly how much. I know with the Leviathan build I hit 5k consistently, and the only two hp items you get with that build are Levi and Warmog's.

Also I disagree with Nashor's Tooth in builds like this because your CDR should be taken care of by having golem buff or a blue elixir, which is a lot sexier than Nashor's Tooth. Personally I think it's one of the most underpowered items in the game. I did get it when I was starting out on Cho to test some ASPD builds out, taking advantage of Vorpal Spikes + CDR, but it didn't seem to work very well.


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SwampZero

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5HITCOMBO View Post
Yeah, it's not a set build, but rushing Zhonya's is definitely strong on Chogath. Your Ruptures and Feast instantly hit for +200 and Scream gets like +160 and on top of that you get a 2 second invulnerability against things like Kat's ult, Fiddle's ult, Karthus' ult, Gangplank's ult... you get the idea.

Thanks for running those numbers! The thing to remember about Chogath is that his Feast gives you more HP as it levels, and I'm not sure exactly how much. I know with the Leviathan build I hit 5k consistently, and the only two hp items you get with that build are Levi and Warmog's.

Also I disagree with Nashor's Tooth in builds like this because your CDR should be taken care of by having golem buff or a blue elixir, which is a lot sexier than Nashor's Tooth. Personally I think it's one of the most underpowered items in the game. I did get it when I was starting out on Cho to test some ASPD builds out, taking advantage of Vorpal Spikes + CDR, but it didn't seem to work very well.

I tried out your build in like 4 games, since we already had identical rune pages, you can take everything here directly. Here's some feedback:

1. I tried all kinds of lanes (1v1, 2v1, 2v2) with a Bead of Regen (its like half a regrowth, ties into spirit visage, or warden mail->Randuin.
It was PLENTY. You don't need regrowth so if you finally decide to stop making Warmogs, just get this one, a ward, and maybe a pot of health/mana.

2. Don't take warmogs. It's not a taste issue or a situation issue. It is demonstrably less powerful than a number of other combinations in literally all situations, farmed or unfarmed.

3a. I tried to replace it with Randuins. It wasn't too good. No actually it sucked. Useless over-regen, kinda hard to use activated ability (At this point in the game, you have 3 gamechanging abilities to cast plus you're squishy enough to have to pay attention. Randuins is v. hard to use in those circumstances)

3b. Tried replacing it with GA (took cloth armor instead of bead/regrowth at start, with a health pot and wards) It was plenty, and GA worked REALLY well. It was a v. hard game so the easy buildup was a blessing.

4. Nice idea on stopping passive at level 2 and going with scream after ulti. It works p. good.

5. I didn't try mobility. Went either with swiftness or merc treads. Both were fine.


Most important note: Given your talents, masteries, runes, and 1st item of choice (regrowth) you are playing him really over-defensibly, if I understood your first post right. You could go naked on the lane and still afford to harass with spikes as Cho'gath. With regrowth you should be constantly in their face. Hell, you should be hitting their range minions while they're attacking you. You'll literally regen more than they can hit you for.