Dominion sympathizes for losing teams. Rubberbanding, artificial "close games", etc.

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Hobocop

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Senior Member

10-16-2011

Quote:
And as posted early in the thread, the _REAL_ problem with this mechanic is when scores are low-ish. You can be ahead on the scoreboard but behind on caps. At that point, if 2 or 3 of your team dies, you will probably lose, since your respawn will be much slower than theirs.
I don't think this is a problem because it's a lot like those really close games in SR, where both teams are reasonably farmed and down several towers, and a single teamfight at Baron decides the game.


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Necks

Senior Member

10-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Long View Post
You're still wrong.

Just because Riot wants all stages of the game to matter doesn't mean they agree with your hilarious misconceptions of "rubberbanding."

You are silly.

Read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello
Right now we're seeing a lot of teams get to the 125 to 125 state regardless of the early game actions, and we don't think that's a good differentiation of skill. We think early game should matter, mid game should matter, and late game should matter.
Quote:
"regardless of the early game actions"
What does that mean? Morello means that no matter how well a team does early game, somehow the match still boils down to 125 to 125. In other words, if my team has a 400 point lead, it doesn't matter because the system will chip away at my 400 point advantage with its automated checks and regulations. If you don't understand the term rubberbanding in this context then...may God help you.

In any case, the final point remains. Whether people agree with me or not, Riot is making changes to Dominion that reflect most of the points in the original post here ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwdf1-jESZE ). It is already a decided course of action. And for good reason. The current system is anti-fun and unnecessary.

Why do people have such a hard time admitting they are wrong, by the way? Even after Riot confirms all of the issues that I've highlighted. It's like Galileo trying to convince a peasant that gravity exists. Unbelievable. :-)


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Cyndikate

Senior Member

10-17-2011

I know currently, Dominion makes it too easy for losing teams to make comebacks, and I never expected the score to have anything to do with it.

I actually thought this was intended. Because in summoner's rift, it's very difficult for the losing team to turn the tables.


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JoeDuo

Senior Member

10-17-2011

Nexus health loss from kills has a minor overall impact on the game flow.
Even if your team gets 60 kills total in a game (which is quite high), that's only -120 Nexus health out of 500, less than 25%.
The vast majority of the drain comes from point control.
Lowering the threshold from 125hp to 1 hp would only reduce the duration of the average game by ~5%.


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Cyndikate

Senior Member

10-17-2011

We still need like a punishment system for dying.

Something like if you get caught making a mistake, you pay the big price for it.


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Hobocop

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Senior Member

10-17-2011

If you're dead, you can't stall for reinforcements, clear minion pushes, capture points, or kill enemy champions.

Giving up the ability to do anything to affect the flow of the game for several seconds is punishment enough.


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JapaneseBearDad

Senior Member

10-17-2011

The biggest problem here is the respawn timers. I can't tell you how many times I will get to take the drill or the opposite of that (cant remember the name) and people will just keep respawning rapidly. After I get killed by their point, itll take me forever to respawn and they will take back the drill and proceed to the windmill. Gold wouldnt be as big an issue if it wasnt for the fact that the losing teams respawn timers get lower and lower for chain deaths.


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Miles Long

Senior Member

10-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
What does that mean? Morello means that no matter how well a team does early game, somehow the match still boils down to 125 to 125. In other words, if my team has a 400 point lead, it doesn't matter because the system will chip away at my 400 point advantage with its automated checks and regulations. If you don't understand the term rubberbanding in this context then...may God help you.

In any case, the final point remains. Whether people agree with me or not, Riot is making changes to Dominion that reflect most of the points in the original post here ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwdf1-jESZE ). It is already a decided course of action. And for good reason. The current system is anti-fun and unnecessary.

Why do people have such a hard time admitting they are wrong, by the way? Even after Riot confirms all of the issues that I've highlighted. It's like Galileo trying to convince a peasant that gravity exists. Unbelievable. :-)
You're wrong. I don't know why I need to say it again.

To me, Morello isn't talking about rubberbanding. What you've been doing is whining about losing and how the game isn't rigged in favor of the winning team (SR). If Riot wants to make the early game matter more, that doesn't suggest to me that the system is babysitting the losing team and handing them free wins. Unless you'd like to prove it's easier to win starting the game at 125-500 rather than 500-500? Rofl.

Boy, who would've thought the game wasn't perfect and would continue to need tweaks? This doesn't concern me as it would've been the case regardless of your poorly thought out opinions. If Riot wants to change the flow of the game, so be it, I have no problem with that.

To expand, I've played plenty of games in which I've won without my team getting as low as 125, so I hardly think there's much of a problem anyway. I've also lost plenty of games where we could barely get their nexus health down to 300 because we were outplayed and the system didn't give us any kind of broken advantage with which to retake the lead.

By the way, gravity is still a theory. If you're going to present your argument as fact I suggest you find a better analogy, particularly one where it is possible to appeal to the powers that be in an effort to change the subject matter for the better.

It's you who doesn't understand. You're too quick to blame the system rather than admit that maybe you were outplayed or your teams tactics were bad, especially now that Riot has announced some new tweaks for CS, which were going to happen anyway. I wonder if you really believe it'll change the game so much as to allow you to stomp all over your opponents like you clearly want.

You'll be back here whining some more when you can't, I'm sure of it.


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Nyii

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10-17-2011

It will take time to tweak the system to be more consistant like with SR matches.

Dominion is a ton of fun, but when I see player's on my team who clearly think that dying does not matter and CS is not important - there should be more to it then just racking up as many kills as you can get and mindlessly capping back and forth.

I also do not fully understand the respawn timers. Sometimes I pop back up immediately, other times I am sitting there for a good 20+ seconds.


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Talistiir

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10-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0B0C0P View Post
I don't think this is a problem because it's a lot like those really close games in SR, where both teams are reasonably farmed and down several towers, and a single teamfight at Baron decides the game.
Right, but the big difference is that on SR, respawn timers are determined by your level, so in a close game respawn timers are almost identical. On CS they are not, they favour one team (the losing team). There is a window of opportunity for a losing team to grab an advantage and then due to respawn times, hold 3 points for long enough to pull off the "comeback" win.

It doesn't happen often, and it doesn't justify the "it's easier to win from 125-500 down", but it does happen and it doesn't make much sense to me _why_ riot put it in. Why not have respawns happen every 30 seconds and anyone who is dead at that point gets revived?

The respawn timers as they are allow players to comeback more easily or simply zerg the opponents to death. It's not a huge deal and the winning team _should_ still win, but in a PUG your overzealous team can easily get aced and face 30 seconds of the other team just capping all points, when you kill them and start recapping, their respawns are 5-10 seconds and they are back in your face.

I just don't understand _why_ the respawn timers are different. Riot?