Dominion sympathizes for losing teams. Rubberbanding, artificial "close games", etc.

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Necks

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maleficantus View Post
In every reply in this thread, you keep repeating that the system is intervening, meddling, and coddling the losing team. However, you don't really provide any evidence that this is the case.

You did say that the losing team continues to receive passive gold at a rate that is higher than on Summoner's Rift. This is true. But the winning team receives this gold as well. Plus the gold for beating the other team in caps/kills. So there's no 'intervention' there...just a different baseline.

If you are so convinced that the system is intervening on behalf of the losing team, how about some facts that back up this assertion? How is it intervening? Or are you just assuming that's the case based on personal experiences of not being able to efficiently finish games when your team has a large lead?


This thread isn't a Newsflash thread. If you don't understand what I'm referring to when I bring up "rubberband mechanics" then that's your own problem.

Also, I already described some of the rubberband mechanics in the original post of this thread. Read.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post

No matter how much effort you put into having that 400+ point lead, no matter how hard you fought for that advantage, the Dominion system will artificially create this long, drawn out illusion that the losing team can still win. It bothers me because it's the system that induces the artificial "close game". It's not the enemy team that's shaping up and getting better with player skill. It's the system feeding gold to the losing team, stopping the loss of Nexus points by champion deaths, modification of respawn timers, etc.


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LethalityVoX

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
When my team is leading with 400+ points and the enemy has less than 100, I know that the match will not end so easily. The rubberband mechanics of Dominion will favor the losing team and postpone the match until it becomes artificially "a close game". My team will win with ~50 points left or so.

No matter how much effort you put into having that 400+ point lead, no matter how hard you fought for that advantage, the Dominion system will artificially create this long, drawn out illusion that the losing team can still win. It bothers me because it's the system that induces the artificial "close game". It's not the enemy team that's shaping up and getting better with player skill. It's the system feeding gold to the losing team, stopping the loss of Nexus points by champion deaths, modification of respawn timers, etc.

Anyone else bothered by the artificial feeling of "a close match" that the game induces? For me, it waters down the game. Victories don't feel rewarding because I know that 50% of my effort was spent combating the game system and not the enemy team's players. "Close matches" don't feel like player skill is deciding victories; rather, the system's aid for losing teams feels like a huge factor.
Don't forget how the "quest" system basically punishes whoever won windmill first. "Five minutes into the game? Better give the losing team a capture point, 20 extra nexus damage, and a team buff."

Assume you're on blue team and you won windmill, then suddenly it's QUEST TIME; you must take the drill WHILE defending windmill, your task actually requires effort whereas purple can win the quest through attrition alone more often than not.

It's like getting bonus gold for ending a spree when there's no gold loss on death, it punishes the aggressive, more skilled player for acting in the best interest of his team if that interest involves him dying, and rewards a player on the losing team for getting lucky/zerging the person who was on the spree.

Honestly, quests should only be fought between the quarry and the boneyard.


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TrRex

Senior Member

10-13-2011

lol, I am sorry but I have seen games that ended with one team having a huge lead. It all comes down to how you play. Most teams get cocky and get killed giving up turrets. Some push when they should just defend the 3 turrets they have. The "system" gives everyone cash and makes it easy to get your items when you are not farming. If you want to farm, stay on SR.


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Skilltestingman

Senior Member

10-13-2011

I once lost a game with enemy nexus at 4 hp. MADDDDDDDDDDDDD


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Jadarok

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Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
It's the system feeding gold to the losing team, stopping the loss of Nexus points by champion deaths, modification of respawn timers, etc.
Feeding gold to the losing team?...they system does not give any bonus gold for losing. What are you even talking about?

Stopping point loss from champion death is to make sure the game is won by holding objectives, not from kills. Plus the modified respawn timers is to make the game more risky end game. All of those "rubberband mechics" aren't really that bad. Riot agrees it can give the feeling of it, so they might tweak it.

To say that this game REWARDS you for being a loser is way too far.

Just like in other sports games, the game isn't over till the time runs out. You can always make a comeback. The whole point trying for that 400-100 lead is so that when you make a mistake endgame, it's not an instant 5-cap ace comback FTW!


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Spellsw

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10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
When a match is like 400 to 100, it's pretty much a given that the 400 point team is going to win. If they lose that, it's definitely because they were outplayed.

HOWEVER, that 400 - 100 match is not going to end straightforward as it may seem. It's not going to be a 350 - 0 victory. It almost always dwindles and dwindles to an artificially "close" 50 - 0 or so victory.

That's the issue here. I'm not complaining about losing. Winning is really not an issue for me. The issue is about how the game system assists losing teams so much that it feels like intervention. When I'm playing Summoner's Rift, I know that player skill and teamwork is the only thing that's standing between myself and my opponent. On Dominion, I feel like the game system is intervening and meddling way too much. Does anyone feel similar?
I personally have come back from a good 400 point loss, where they were sitting at 450 or so and we were at 50.

Does the losing team get fed bodies to throw?, They actually don't in my experience. I have found that if your team comp is trash, where you have no one building correctly/ building in-effective (eg ad nunu), then you can suffer.

The heavy comebacks rarely result in this "snowball" effect of throwing bodies at points. I do agree however that the sense of "skill" is not nearly as present in this as it is in SR. Hell, Poppy for example is ******edly op in dominion. Why?, Well the fact that there are SOOO many ****ing walls it doesn't take skill to kill anyone, just run in and e them and 9.5 times out of 10 you will hit a wall.

So yes, This snowball effect can happen, but only with apparently OP characters. Anything that is reasonably balanced and you can make comebacks from it.

What would be nice is to possibly base the respawn times off of both Points and # of caps. This would allow for a nicer balance as stated.

Higher points= Longer respawn. More points= Longer respawn.

However by longer respawn we shouldn't be having 30-45 second respawns, as then you are sitting out and will effectively lose. Max would have to be 30 if you are up a great deal.


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IronManZ

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Senior Member

10-13-2011

Continual changes in the sense of 1 patch changing it every 6 months to a year, by Riot's standards. LOL. Good job failing yet again at creating a decent gameplay experience that doesn't reward r3tard3d gameplay and catters to the masses.


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Pooksta

Junior Member

10-13-2011

I think that as someone has already suggested once the losing team gets the majority of points the respawn timers should go back to equal until a disparity appears again. More nexus hp means longer respawn times. More nodes captured again means longer respawn times. That way the losing team still has to fight and gets a small advantage to promote a come back but it wont be, as it is now, in their favour until the end of the game.


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

10-13-2011

So many games where the respawn timers are 30+ for the winning team, and 15 for the losing team. Around the 0-50 point you lose a third, and you can't reinforce any point fast enough. All of a sudden if you die while winning your going to lose a point, but if you are on the losing team, you can respawn fast enough to reinforce/push a seperate point. Hurts the game as a whole


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Myrm1don

Senior Member

10-13-2011

I had another thread but i thought i would post it here aswell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrm1don View Post
In my opinion the so called ďartificial feelingĒ of a close game is the BEST thing about Dominion. Bear with me as I explain

FUN is the most important thing. Even winning is stale when thereís no fun to be had.

STOMPS are not satisfying/fun one way or the other. Being allowed to have a presence on the game, even if you are losing IS fun.

The must frustrating thing about Summoners Rift is 1 or 2 players having a bad game, really hurt your ability to have a presence, and because they have done so poorly, you will suffer for it no matter how well you started personally.

In Dominion you have a much larger presence as an individual. 1-2 players doing badly doesnít effect you so much as it does your teams nexus health. So even if the enemy team is a long way ahead and stomping your teammates you can still have a hefty presence on the game as an individual , and even turn it around.

A few things that need to be acknowledged:

(1) If your team is truly stomping them, you will still win 400-0 regardless of their spawn times

(2) If they make a comeback at around 400-100, I find this is more a testament to a combination of variables;

o their late game champion picks
o itemisation to counter the other team
o The losing team pulling themselves together, cocky winning team
o spawn time

I donít think its good enough to attribute the comeback solely because of spawn times. This is an excuse for the over confident and the cocky

By the time it reaches 400-100 items are well in hand on both sides (as kills and snowballing donít affect individual players ability to get items as heavily as SR)The choices players made with those items matter greatly.

For example

One memorable game I had was on a team with 2 useless players for the first half of the game . By the time it reached 400-100 Alistair and myself (who had been holding our own all game) had itemised in a way that we could take the whole other team 2 vs 5 (anivia, skarna, kogmaw, ez, and vlad) under our tower. The enemy didnít itemize to bring us down (and their tact was lacking obviously), and the fact that all 5 of them had to come to get us off of one tower meant we had free reign on the rest of the towers. In this instance we won, we had an impact on the game, We had Fun even though we were pumped hard at the start.

I have also had games where we make a comeback at around the 400-100 but lost. It was fun because we still had an impact to bring it back to a close game. having a Chance is Fun, complete shutout isnt.

On the otherside i have been on the team 400-50 up and lost. I still had fun, but i didnt blame the spawn timers at all. they had late game heavy hitters like trynd, jax, gangplank and no one on our team had thornmails or defence against their late game. We lost because we chose poorly with out items

So in my mind, Why would you want to make it easier for a 400-0 shutout? This really hits the fun meter on the team, and individual on both sides

Regards