Speedy Janna, or support in dominion in general

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Kalarepa

Senior Member

10-07-2011

I've seen and tried many of those weird "speedy-tanky" builds in Dominion (on Zilean, Janna, Eve, Shaco). They're cool at backdooring and stuff, but...
They completely stop working in the moment, when enemies capture 3 points and start defending them. Because then you need someone to tower dive and fight, not to run around the map and do almost nothing.
I'm not saying, supports are useless in Dominion, but I would just stick to normal AP/cdr build. Unless you're pubstomping one of those "screw defending, I need points!" teams.


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maxusmaximus

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Apart from a couple games i had last night i've had huge success with ap sona. Apart from a few champs like rammus very few champs are as fast as sona around the map especially with lich bane and her q is perfect for dominion as you can hit them from behind the wall at windmill. I very often end up top 1 or 2 in k/d/a and in score. The trick is keeping your distance at all times and kiting. I went 28/5 in a 4 v 5 the other day vs shaco, twitch, jax, morde and singed. With just lich bane and deathcap just one q and passive proc hit you can burst a squishy's health by half.


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GwynApNudd

Member

10-07-2011

I have seen support do quite well. Especially Janna. Whirlwind pushes minions fast, harasses points, and disrupts. Her ult can be used defensively or offensively to knock defenders off their point. I think all the "support sucks" comments are coming from people in the 1v1 mind set. Support in a 3v3 situation are pretty strong, and if they get into a 1v1 they can't win, they can usually walk away from it.


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PriorityOne

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by GwynApNudd View Post
I think all the "support sucks" comments are coming from people in the 1v1 mind set.
No, they're coming from people like me who have lost pretty much every Dominion game with a team Janna. Having a Janna instead of a Ryze or <insert strong champion here> just handicaps you in fights. The main advantage of Janna in SR is that she is very effective with very little gold and the main advantage of Dominion is that everyone gets plenty of gold.

While I've not had good experience with Janna, I've seen a lot of great Sorakas. She is an absolute boss on Dominion.


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KommunistKevin

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PriorityOne View Post
No, they're coming from people like me who have lost pretty much every Dominion game with a team Janna. Having a Janna instead of a Ryze or <insert strong champion here> just handicaps you in fights. The main advantage of Janna in SR is that she is very effective with very little gold and the main advantage of Dominion is that everyone gets plenty of gold.

While I've not had good experience with Janna, I've seen a lot of great Sorakas. She is an absolute boss on Dominion.
Exactly even xpecial admitted that supports are not viable

Supports role is mostly harass and defending against harass along with warding and counterwarding. They scale extremely poorly with items due to high cooldowns and poor ap ratios or low base damage

Backdooring doesn't work in dominion due to camping speed points and the fact that you don't start capping immediately you have to channel for around 3 seconds before you actually start capping. It can work vs bad teams.

The only time someone should backdoor (taking the other teams mid) is after a MAJOR fight has been lost at windmill and the enemy is capping it, you can equalize it by capping their mid to temporarily stop your nexus from bleeding. Or when there is NO HOPE of breaking the enemies defenses at windmill.

Backdooring Janna is also especially harmful to her own team since she scales so poorly she is gaining 100 gold for every cap but also giving 100 gold to the other teams vayne/jax/poppy/akali when they take her cap back.

Almost everygame I saw a backdooring Janna that team pretty much lost 100% of the time due to defenders having such a HUGE advantage over cappers. You have a constant defense leaving your base due to people going to heal or buying items along with the backdoor points being so close to your base.

Janna might be able to cap your mid or bot, but the damage will be negligible and will almost be recapped instantly while the other team holds the windmill in permanent status.


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InmoniXian

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Kommunist Kevin, sorry chap I still gotta disagree, janna can bring alot more to a team than just backdoor caps, thats only a small part of it , but honestly it seems your argument is based more on theory than anything else it's right there with the kind of statement that "skill shots are horrible because pro players will have pratically psychic knowledge and be able to juke your attack anyway" .

yes a team that functions completely perfectly like a well oiled machine is going to be harder to exploit kinks in, however 99.9% of dominion teams are NOT well oiled machines and have plenty of openings

even so , I fail to see your logic here, according to you , the situation is they have 3 points, are defending all three fronts (3 champs) , also guarding all movement points (at least 1 champ) .. this leaves a single champ to move around leaving none to attack ours, this allows us to focus all of our champs on taking one of those three points.

now perhaps your saying that if they all stay on the middle movment points they can guard all three, I would say this is false, many of times I have taken a point away from a team before someone got from the mid movement point to me, maybe no caped it fully for my team, and even if I don't fully pull it from them, the points don't regen fast enough so they are stuck there guarding that point for some time while it fully recovers

but yes your base argument of a "well oiled machine is nearly impossible to find kinks in" is good in theory, but that is rarely the situation


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KommunistKevin

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by InmoniXian View Post
Kommunist Kevin, sorry chap I still gotta disagree, janna can bring alot more to a team than just backdoor caps, thats only a small part of it , but honestly it seems your argument is based more on theory than anything else it's right there with the kind of statement that "skill shots are horrible because pro players will have pratically psychic knowledge and be able to juke your attack anyway" .

yes a team that functions completely perfectly like a well oiled machine is going to be harder to exploit kinks in, however 99.9% of dominion teams are NOT well oiled machines and have plenty of openings

even so , I fail to see your logic here, according to you , the situation is they have 3 points, are defending all three fronts (3 champs) , also guarding all movement points (at least 1 champ) .. this leaves a single champ to move around leaving none to attack ours, this allows us to focus all of our champs on taking one of those three points.

now perhaps your saying that if they all stay on the middle movment points they can guard all three, I would say this is false, many of times I have taken a point away from a team before someone got from the mid movement point to me, maybe no caped it fully for my team, and even if I don't fully pull it from them, the points don't regen fast enough so they are stuck there guarding that point for some time while it fully recovers

but yes your base argument of a "well oiled machine is nearly impossible to find kinks in" is good in theory, but that is rarely the situation
Not theory I have 97 dominion wins, probably around 200 dominion games assuming a 50% win ratio while you ONLY have 6.

Most of the people I get qued with have 50-100 dominion wins under their belt.

Most of the people that you get qued with probably have around 1-10 dominion wins.

And yes at whatever my dominion elo is nobody actually stands on the tower to defend it other than static defense spammers like Shaco and heimer, they all camp the speedshrines so they can speed to any location such as windmill, or mid and bot to defend at a moments notice.


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Leonixxiii

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Supports can work... Their problem comes from long CDs, thus the need to rush CDR, and need for teamwork, so solo isn't the best place for them.

I've had both good, and bad games with Lux, and the good ones came when my teammates had a good idea of where to be in relation to me, and our target(s).

We also need much craftier builds... For example I m ctualy thinking of putting Nashor's tooth on Lux next tim instead of MET for that earlier 5% CRD, and AS... Scary I know.


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rumples

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Janna's shield is a 6 second cd with full reduction. That's 240 +.8 free life plus the AD almost constantly. Sure she doesn't scale great as a burst fighter, that's why I build tanky/cd/auras to further assist the assault mob.I'm at around 70W-50L total using her whenever the ranks are full of dps. Is she great for all team comps? hell no, But she's definitely not bad. Try pairing her with riven or another champ that scales heavily with AD and watch the roflstomp ensue.


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Abyss Crown

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Senior Member

10-07-2011

I'd like to take a second and point out InmoniXian's match history. His captures and neutralizes are quite godly. Now while I rarely care about the personal scores in Dominion (because they don't tell you much, everything is situational), I'm looking at the histories of some of the people criticizing Xian, and they're match history is pretty balls. Either they get the majority of their points from kills, or they just do horrible.

Now in all fairness to the criticisms, Xian is level 17, however, I have seen level 17s play better then 30s, because just because you reach an easy level cap doesn't mean you're better then the lower levels. I'm going to try this build out, or at least somewhat, and see how it fairs out. Then again, I'm sure this build he is pointing out is fairly dependent on play style, which I'm sure mine is highly different than his.

Also, what's with all this "heueueue support is bad on Dom". It reminds me of all the "heueeueu Nidalee is bad on Dom". Oh, wait, they're probably the same people. The same people who took lessons from Phreak's spotlights containing Dominion footage and just focused on kills, and not capping/diversions.


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