@Morello/Xypherous: Can we get an update on the stealth remake please?

First Riot Post
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IlDeathlI

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

yay love the way riot is now being a lot more transparent =D


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Make Oracles be 2 min duration, longer range stealth detection, invisible character and ward detection, same cost and able to carry 5.

The duration makes ward sweeping possible, but not the "I win" of map control it is now; it gives an advantage against Twitch, Eve, and potentially a reworked Shen (Awesome possibility) expecially if normal ward work as motion sensors so you know when to pop them, but this is like popping flash to escape- eve knows that she forced him to blow 400gold, and can just come back in 2 minutes; and it remains a counter to tactical invisibility such as Akali and Teemo, though a more expensive one than a stack of pink wards- you pay for the ability to move around with it.


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Caladh

Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistyn View Post
hey I didn't read through all the pages but are the stealthed characters going to be warned by their sight crystal if an enemy is in the brush and they're not?
1. Only Twitch and Evelynn will have 'stealth' once this goes live, all other current stealths will be renamed to 'invisibility' (that is, Teemo's passive, Akali's Shroud, Shaco's Deceive, Vayne's Tumble with ultimate).
2. Only stealth champions will have the new stealth mechanics (including sight crystals).
3. As someone said it well, not their crystals, but the enemies', since the crystals will be displayed above enemy champions, not above Eve/Twitch. So if you can't see the enemy, you can't see the crystal and you can't know if they see you.


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Overlord Squee

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Junior Member

07-13-2011

Just to be clear on these sight bubbles: are they a 360 line of sight around the character or just in front of them?


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Kuranith

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurelia View Post
I do.... = (

She teaches me....

Xyphie-sensei!
Xypherious. IS SHURELIA TROLLING OR IS MY FAVORITE RED A FEMALE?

I can't tell.


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KaiAllardLiao

Senior Member

07-13-2011

hafta go with the DotA vets on this one: this does seem to be just one big dumbdown to make it easier for the teams that don't cooperate or plan and just play semi-independantly of each other. All they really need to do is increase the range at which pink/oracles detect and there would be little issue IMO.

in the case of Eve, this more or less makes her useless unless with someone, and/or against a single target, at best. otherwise, she'll be torn apart rather easily before she gets close. lack of kills means lack of items, meaning more or less becoming useless in late-game. In team fights, everyone will be keeping tabs and if smart will focus her at first sign, making her rather risky to bring close, and shield or no, i doubt itll be ebough to stop 3+ champs attacks long enough to do any real damage.

true, this is estimates, but i predict Eve'll end up a melee Leblanc, without the great early-mid game. honestly, i think if their gonna do a stealth char, which they have, they should leave her as she is and if the players are too disorganized or dumb to stop it, thats their problem. the fact shes melee makes up for that.

Twitch i have never played, so cannot comment or guess with him.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-13-2011
18 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Dumbing down stealth for newer players
The current stealth system, as it stands right now, is far easier to execute successfully than fail at. Stealth, as a mechanic right now, is pretty much has the highest return for one of the lower skil-intensive mechanics. You hit a button, and now you are untargetable.

The reason why the stealth characters are "hard" to play is that this super easy lower-skill mechanic is tied to a character who is tremendously difficult or has tremendously lowered base statistics in order to balance out their skill to effectiveness curve.

This phenomenon creates a weird dichotomy where you don't get better at stealth characters by getting better at using the stealth mechanic. You get better at stealth characters by getting better at learning how to use artifically lowered statistics for balance.

One of the immediate benefits of the new stealth system was that it was hard to use effectively without practice. That's one of the major takeaways that I've really enjoyed. To get better at Evelynn and Twitch, you can *actually* learn to exploit the vision distances and harass abilities that you have. You need to learn how to leverage stealth/your position well to scout and understand how much power being invisible to minions and circling can give you when side-pushing, etc.

Quote:
New players should be forced to learn
While I don't disagree that players *do* need to learn how to counter certain tactics, the skill cost to implement stealth currently is so much lower than the skill cost to counter stealth. Now, we've had to balance that skill cost by putting stealth on artificially weak characters, but the basics of the mechanics means that skill cost for countering the stealth mechanic will always be much much greater than executing stealth. This, in general, gives a terrible sense of where balance is at, because unless players are all above a certain skill threshold and the binary nature of the system starts to take its toll as before that skill threshold, stealth is amazing. Above that skill threshold, stealth is underpowered and frustrating.

I completely agree that these "gaps" need to exist for players to get better at the game, however, the gap here is *so* wide and the initial starting point for using stealth is *so* low, as a mechanic that it's not serving this purpose very well.


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Dance Dark

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

Xypherous, please have my babies.


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Daen

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Recruiter

07-13-2011

This remake looks absolutely incredible. I might actually consider using Evelynn and/or Twitch on a regular basis, because this mechanic looks like so much fun.


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MikeyOnslaught

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

I would like to see this patch right now. :>