Suggestions concerning the way Matchmaking works

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Private Riem

Senior Member

06-12-2011

This is an idea I posted a really long time ago, yet was ignored by most of the community (disappeared too fast off the first page of General).
Today, I got sick of it. Of the matchmaking. Of those never saying anything in Ranked, not cooperating and just picking some random champion that simply don't help the rest of the team.

So I decided to do what I wanted to do back then, make a Photoshop of the team Lobby fitting my suggestions.

TL : DR In essence, I suggest we make people join a lobby (Similar to the one for premade teams) before putting them into the actual Queue. This new lobby will have options to votekick afk/ uncooperative players. It will also have a menu that can be used to show other players what champion you can/are willing to play and what champion you are actually planning to play.
Finally there is a "Ready" button that, when all 5 players activate, allow the players to join the Queue.
This new option can also be used to automatically fill an incomplete lobby with random players.



First, a new option is added to the "Play" Menu.
This option is: Join Lobby
It is available to solo queuers and is also available in the premade lobby.
http://i53.tinypic.com/9uz1vs.png

Then, the actually lobby.
The new options added to the lobby are the following:
There is an option/menu available that allow the players to indicate the other players what champion they can/ are willing to play. Those champions are chosen by the players (which means it can be only 2-3 champions if they want) in a specific menu.
From there, the players can also, if they feel like it, select one of the champions to be their "Planned Champion". This selection has no impact on the actual Champion selection the 2 teams have to do later.
When a player has made his selection and feel ready to continue, he can hit the ready button to indicate this to the other players.

If a player is AFK, uncooperative or does not hit the ready button, the others can votekick him off the lobby. Only 3 votes would be necessary for this.
If however, one player isn't satisfied with the players he was matched with, he can simply find another lobby WITH NO CONSEQUENCES. A player that has been kicked or left a lobby can not join it back.
Once all players are ready, they get into the Queue and the game proceeds as normal. If a player leave during the Champion selection, Consequences happen as normal.
http://i55.tinypic.com/axgzr5.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/2csjfh4.png

[Edit:] New and improved:
http://i55.tinypic.com/t5t9wg.png
http://i55.tinypic.com/muwe9j.png

This new system solves a big issue with the matchmaking we have currently:
Lack of time and the tools to properly cooperate with your teammate before a game.
Queue dodging is a problem, this provides an elegant solution to greatly reduce Queue dodging and while increasing the time spent before getting into the actual game, it should help the players have a better time by allowing them to cooperate with their teammates and having plenty of time to set up.
The main problem that could come from this:
Selfish players could use this system to kick off anybody they deems "unskilled" until they find somebody closer to their elo etc. This was the reason I decided to leave the "Show profile" button off the lobby. It can still be seen through one's own profile page but it at least should limit the "eloism" that could come from this.

Overall, I think the pluses vastly outnumber the cons and would greatly enhance the way we play the game. It would let cooperative teams enough time to join a voice chat client beforehand, even if they're complete strangers.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
I hope I went through everything as to limit the number of questions needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PStyle View Post
If the player is afk in ranked, don't give him a random
Kick him out
That's the best fix

But the vote kick doesn't seem good because
Games would never start if 1 team doesn't have the "perfect" team comp
If there are 4 people that play all ad/ap champs, they can just keep kicking the fifth person until a tank appears
Currently, we have solo Queuers that, most of the time, simply refuse to cooperate with the team or even choose a champion the team needs. How many times have you seen a team with nothing but AD carries on ranked? Way too many times. One player should not be punished for the selfishness of 2-3-4 other players.
As for the kick vote, a limit on how many times it can be used could be used to prevent and solve this issue.


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Private Riem

Senior Member

06-22-2011

Sigh.


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adc

Member

06-22-2011

A few questions on this before I say anything else.

First, how do the 'Champions Available' boxes work? Are they the unlocked champion, or the ones that the player indicated they'd be willing to play?

Second, how do we stop abuse? With 3 votes needed, I see two things happening: One, a player joins a game, professes that he wishes not to tank, and then gets vote kicked by the trio-queue who won't let anyone not tanking play, because they wish to do 3 AD carries for fun. Two, a trio-queue joins a game and AFKs, thus making that lobby both the most joined one (as the oldest one) and one that nobody can votekick from.

Third, you're playing Soraka or Taric or someone like that. Someone on the team doesn't like your pick. They refuse to "Ready up", as it's known in other games I play, and thus you can't begin the game. But they're playing the tank, and the team NEEDS the tank more than your support - so who do they kick? Probably the support, unfortunately.

Now that I've got those out there, a few ideas and comments come to mind.

First of all, I REALLY like ANY kind of suggestion that's well thought out and provides a logical solution to the problem of AFKers/leavers/etc.

Perhaps make the game so that quadra-queue can't join these. Then, to prevent abuse, make it so that if you want to votekick someone, the AT cannot votekick someone on their own - someone other than in the AT has to vote Yes as well. Definitely not the best solution, but the only thing that comes to the top of my head right now.

Again, I really like suggestions like this. I have an extremely low ELO that I don't personally believe I deserve because of trolls, feeders, and people who just refuse to respond to the chat. I've begun bringing it up, but it's EXTREMELY hard. With a competent team, it would be easier to pull it up. Hell, with even a modicum of chit chat it would be easier to pull up.


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Private Riem

Senior Member

06-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyterFang View Post
A few questions on this before I say anything else.

First, how do the 'Champions Available' boxes work? Are they the unlocked champion, or the ones that the player indicated they'd be willing to play?

The ones the player indicate they are willing to play.

Second, how do we stop abuse? With 3 votes needed, I see two things happening: One, a player joins a game, professes that he wishes not to tank, and then gets vote kicked by the trio-queue who won't let anyone not tanking play, because they wish to do 3 AD carries for fun. Two, a trio-queue joins a game and AFKs, thus making that lobby both the most joined one (as the oldest one) and one that nobody can votekick from.

That would be solved by adding a limit to the number of times a lobby can kick somebody. Limit around 3 would do the job. Second, you can leave and join another lobby at any time with no penalty you can't rejoin the same lobby once kicked or left.

Third, you're playing Soraka or Taric or someone like that. Someone on the team doesn't like your pick. They refuse to "Ready up", as it's known in other games I play, and thus you can't begin the game. But they're playing the tank, and the team NEEDS the tank more than your support - so who do they kick? Probably the support, unfortunately.

Better than a queue dodge, but still can just find another lobby. If somebody refuses to lock because he doesn't like a pick, he deserves the boot for being an ass.(Unless pick is really bad, but that can be discussed with, hence the "available champions")

Now that I've got those out there, a few ideas and comments come to mind.

First of all, I REALLY like ANY kind of suggestion that's well thought out and provides a logical solution to the problem of AFKers/leavers/etc.

Perhaps make the game so that quadra-queue can't join these. Then, to prevent abuse, make it so that if you want to votekick someone, the AT cannot votekick someone on their own - someone other than in the AT has to vote Yes as well. Definitely not the best solution, but the only thing that comes to the top of my head right now.

Again, I really like suggestions like this. I have an extremely low ELO that I don't personally believe I deserve because of trolls, feeders, and people who just refuse to respond to the chat. I've begun bringing it up, but it's EXTREMELY hard. With a competent team, it would be easier to pull it up. Hell, with even a modicum of chit chat it would be easier to pull up.

Good feedback.


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Colsta

Senior Member

06-23-2011

I support this idea!


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Bane Wraith

Senior Member

06-23-2011

... It would need to be considered Premade, for the purpose of matchmaking. Meaning that a team formed this way will likely be regarded as a much higher ELO than they usually are, for the purpose of Whom they get matched with and the rating changes thereafter the game.

...I ... Just.. don't like the Vote/kick. XD
I also see it having no true point, if it'd be limited.

A hearty amount of suggestions are coming in Begging Riot to implement a system to clean up "dead" custom games. I think, That, combined with a Host for these lobbies might be a better idea. Or, put bluntly, when one has the option to create a Premade party (Which might actually need to be renamed.. XD ), you could give them the chance to "Unlock" it to the public, that wishes to join a lobby...

At least give your refutation for making this a Host-and-join lobby?

Regardless of the way this is done, Your lobbies have the chance of facing incredibly vicious odds. Assuming the Matchmaker's going to attempt to join you up with a lobby of roughly your ELO, there may still be chances during much less populous hours that you're faced with an enemy lobby of significantly higher average rating.

I adore some of the other ideas, and wish to see them implemented into the already existing premade lobby and perhaps Custom games which would allow it, as well.

What scares me, is that After this is implemented, Premade teams with anything Less than the maximum number of players joined would be at a significant disadvantage; since Any team can now fill up their lobby, and premades would have ( a few HIGH elo players mind you ) Solo queuers join their team...

Anyways, awaiting your response. ^_^ I hope to see this refined in yet Another thread, once it's reasoned out, with a poll.


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adc

Member

06-23-2011

I imagine joining a lobby would be much the same way joining a game would be - based on your ELO, instead of you getting to pick your own lobby. Then after you get the five and start, it would be recalculated with the ELO of everyone in the lobby to give you your 5 man premade ELO.

This should give you a team around your skill level, and theoretically an enemy team of roughly the same skill level. Assuming, of course, all 5 of the people in the game on both sides solo queued, and nobody invited a lowbie friend to skew the ELOs, which seems to be the problem now.

Besides, a few crushing defeats aren't that bad. If the player doesn't like it, they can go play normal queue. If they stick with it, they'll get better at the game. It's aggravating, but it's also a decent way to learn.


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Bane Wraith

Senior Member

06-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyterFang View Post
This should give you a team around your skill level, and theoretically an enemy team of roughly the same skill level. Assuming, of course, all 5 of the people in the game on both sides solo queued, and nobody invited a lowbie friend to skew the ELOs, which seems to be the problem now.
One thing's for certain... If this were introduced to Ranked, it would probably make the entire Teamplay concept Explode in popularity... in fact, most likely, Solo Ranked would become a thing of the past.

...Anyways, there are naturally other threads suggesting ways to deal with importing lower/higher ranked players... although they may not be compatible with this one.


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Private Riem

Senior Member

06-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane Wraith View Post
... It would need to be considered Premade, for the purpose of matchmaking. Meaning that a team formed this way will likely be regarded as a much higher ELO than they usually are, for the purpose of Whom they get matched with and the rating changes thereafter the game.

This could not be considered premade because the 5 players are random. I left the invite button there out of lazyness, but it should be removed, along with the "lobby leader" title. This could replace solo queue completely, but I'm afraid it might anger some people for increasing the time before the actual game starts.

...I ... Just.. don't like the Vote/kick. XD
I also see it having no true point, if it'd be limited.

Votekick is there to get rid of an afk/troll. It gives the team a chance to avoid queue dodging in the first place.

A hearty amount of suggestions are coming in Begging Riot to implement a system to clean up "dead" custom games. I think, That, combined with a Host for these lobbies might be a better idea. Or, put bluntly, when one has the option to create a Premade party (Which might actually need to be renamed.. XD ), you could give them the chance to "Unlock" it to the public, that wishes to join a lobby...

In normal, this could work. However, we end with the question, what happens with the solo queuers? Do they get paired with the "premades" or end up against only solo queuers (those that don't use the actually lobby). It would end up splitting the community in 2, so I advise against making it considered premade. It would also ruin the purpose of solo queue ranked at the same time, so its better to still be considered solo. Something should be done regarding the ability to go "duo" queue with a friend in ranked. If we were to allow inviting friends, it would allow "pubstomping" by allowing a real premade to circumvent the lobby and facing 5 solo queuers that used said lobby.


At least give your refutation for making this a Host-and-join lobby?

Regardless of the way this is done, Your lobbies have the chance of facing incredibly vicious odds. Assuming the Matchmaker's going to attempt to join you up with a lobby of roughly your ELO, there may still be chances during much less populous hours that you're faced with an enemy lobby of significantly higher average rating.

I don't think the matchmaking should modify the elo for this in any way. The way it already matches teammates seems fine right now and could possibly just create more problems.

I adore some of the other ideas, and wish to see them implemented into the already existing premade lobby and perhaps Custom games which would allow it, as well.

What scares me, is that After this is implemented, Premade teams with anything Less than the maximum number of players joined would be at a significant disadvantage; since Any team can now fill up their lobby, and premades would have ( a few HIGH elo players mind you ) Solo queuers join their team...

Which is why invite should be disabled, so only blind luck can match 2 friends together in the same lobby.


Anyways, awaiting your response. ^_^ I hope to see this refined in yet Another thread, once it's reasoned out, with a poll.
This is the kind of discussion I love.


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Bane Wraith

Senior Member

06-23-2011

For the record, it would be easier if you answered Outside of quotes, somehow, so we can make it clear which points We're addressing of Yours. ^_^

The Votekick; ...It doesn't matter what its Purpose is, If it can be abused to simply Kick players for Any reason, I simply dislike it. The only saving grace of such a feature is that it's not directly affecting Live Gameplay here. It might still lead to quite a bit of abuse and prejudice in the lower levels.. and Anyone that has a visible leaving record as well...

In terms of Matchmaking, I'm afraid this would Still likely be considered Premade, in terms of average elo rating; it Should and Would be matched with other premades and teams, of the same (higher) average elo rating, as it happens now. You are lending players infinite ability to prepare themselves, Random group or not... Therefore, I remain rather Absolute that these are considered Premade teams. The elo rating mock-up however, would Not need to be included, if it abides the suggestions below:

...If I may clarify my own propositions for this system...

...Keep all previous ideas. Include inviting in these lobbies, Therefore making them the equivalent of a premade game.

Let No premade/lobby game enter queue without being a complete set of players ( 5 for 5vs5, 3 for 3vs3 )

...I'm Still against implementing the vote/kick system, and recommend the Hosting system. This would also eliminate the factor of deciding When a new lobby is made, as well as give arbitrary rights to a vote/kick... Rather than having the possible bully-by-the-majority... And of course, Players are still free to leave the lobby on a whim. However, if you still oppose this, then I would simply suggest Not having a vote/kick system; And players that leave simply won't be able to rejoin the same lobby. Regardless, you'd need to clarify How and When a new lobby is formed.

...Having Solo queue and Lobby/Premade queue on two different grounds Would split gamestyles, in what I believe is a Good way; Playing solo with a randomly selected team relies on certain skills, while playing with a team you've had the ability to plan with, relies on others. (Duo-queue would still likely be joined with Solo-queuers, though, instead of being Forced to join a lobby)

I also recommend a Ready button, as seen Here... ... Though I prefer the suggestion made in my comment on that thread, the "Ready Checkbox" instead.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot you already actually included a Ready button in the original proposition... Anyways =P A final suggestion would then be that it Un-toggles, whenever a change is made.


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