What do you think of this idea?

I think it could help! 126 87.50%
I won't fix anything. 18 12.50%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

An Alternative to Leavers

First Riot Post
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Orphan Harvest

Recruiter

05-23-2011

I completely agree with you, Bane Wraith. I never intended to have bots in my original idea. I was just adding to Gradash's post saying that if they would do that with bots, it would need to be done right.

However... no. Bots are not part of my idea for leavers and I won't be appending to it.


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Petercantropus

Member

05-24-2011

I hate leavers!
I have a day job and a family (wife, kids), so the time I can dedicate to game is not much. Getting the 45 minutes to game spoiled by a leaver really sucks.
If either another human or a bot could take the leavers place would be nice. And punish the *******s that keep leaving.


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Apoptosine

Senior Member

05-24-2011

OK so I voted in the minority (it won't fix anything) but like the idea. Nice thumbnails btw.

There could even be a feature where someone can voluntarily leave and prepare the open slot. But here's why I think it wouldn't work:

Any system or process to facilitate this sort of thing opens itself to it's own further abuses by (other) players. Who would want to come into a situation, playing a champion perhaps they know little of (Items bought already/masteries/runes etc,) and probably a bad situation (the reason why many leave in the first place), and take a loss? What incentive do they have to compete? Whats to stop them from further griefing?


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Bane Wraith

Senior Member

05-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoptosine View Post
Any system or process to facilitate this sort of thing opens itself to it's own further abuses by (other) players. Who would want to come into a situation, playing a champion perhaps they know little of (Items bought already/masteries/runes etc,) and probably a bad situation (the reason why many leave in the first place), and take a loss? What incentive do they have to compete? Whats to stop them from further griefing?
...Aye, it was mentioned Once before that this feature Might offer a Reward to players in the form of Letting them use a champion they haven't yet purchased...

...To be honest, haven't thought about it too much. Of course, Anyone that willingly replaces the leaver is subject to the same judgement by their peers; In other words, they could be reported just like any other troll. The chances you get such an offender interfering with your game are about the same as one of the Original players already being offensive.

There are other threads out there, at least one in particular, that mentions a Vote-to-kick feature. Personally, I've always been against the idea... Bully-by-the-majority, and all that... But perhaps this can be implemented Specifically regarding a "filler" player, available to the team for the first, say, 10 minutes of the Filler's joining?

The incentive to compete has been the same it's always been; To play the game, to have fun, or out of sheer good will of supporting a short team. ^_^

... What say you, OP?


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Orphan Harvest

Recruiter

05-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoptosine View Post
...Any system or process to facilitate this sort of thing opens itself to it's own further abuses by (other) players. Who would want to come into a situation, playing a champion perhaps they know little of (Items bought already/masteries/runes etc,) and probably a bad situation (the reason why many leave in the first place), and take a loss? What incentive do they have to compete? Whats to stop them from further griefing?
A valid point, no doubt! The skip option is always there for use if the player gets a queue where the champion is unfamiliar or uncomfortable. If they enter and continue to grief, that is where the Tribunal comes in (hopefully!). Those entering the game, even as a substitute are subject to a report. Nothing is going to stop them from griefing if they want to, so let's hope that that Tribunal will take care of that!

Vote-to-Kick only works if all participants of the game (friends and enemies) vote. It should never work like a surrender vote.


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Valorius

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Recruiter

05-24-2011

This smells of a great idea. Some things to consider:
Entering a game that has already started might require a particularly difficult ELO check. If the difference between the two teams is too great, a guy with the same average ELO entering might not be able to save the day. On the other hand, if the match is even or being won by the leaver's team, a guy with higer ELO might easily ensure victory for the leaver's team.
When you are given a place in a game already in progress, that game should lock you in, so that noone else can stumble upon the same game and enter ahead, leaving you wandering why is it that after changing all your runes, masteries and all, it just doesn't let you in. Since that MUST be implemented, there must be at least a little punishment for constantly dodging games in progress, since for every time you stumble upon one you won't play, there's someone else who would, and inside the game they would be praying for that person to appear.
Last but not least, entering a game that has already started can be quite an abused feature; for example, players waiting till they find a game their team will be already winning even with the leaver, or players entering only to freely try out a champ with no real interest in playing to win. This system should be watched closely and should be at the same time rewarding and extra dangerous to abuse.

Plus, I agree with Bane Wraith, a vote-to-kick the filler player only a few minutes after he enters might be quite usefull (yah, still open to abuse, but if you're losing a match it's doubtful that you'll start randomly kicking everyone just because).


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NoradIV

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Member

05-24-2011

There is a certain problem here, which I think there should be adressed. First one, I think that you should be able to change the items cash for cash or all the items should sold for their full value, and the new player could play as if he was there all long, since you might have a different playstyle (or the last player was a general troll that wanted the worst of his team and bought bad item build for the next to take his place).

Since, in three or five minutes, lot of things could happen, I think that the level of the disconnecter should be ajusted to a minimum of the lowest level of the team, to make the game at least a bit enjoyable to the newcomer. If I had to enter a game where I had crappy items and I would be 3 level under the lower, I wouldn't like it and I wouldn't join games in progress.

For the rest, I find your post perfect, and I agree with it.


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Bane Wraith

Senior Member

05-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
Entering a game that has already started might require a particularly difficult ELO check. If the difference between the two teams is too great, a guy with the same average ELO entering might not be able to save the day. On the other hand, if the match is even or being won by the leaver's team, a guy with higer ELO might easily ensure victory for the leaver's team.
When you are given a place in a game already in progress, that game should lock you in, so that noone else can stumble upon the same game and enter ahead, leaving you wandering why is it that after changing all your runes, masteries and all, it just doesn't let you in. Since that MUST be implemented, there must be at least a little punishment for constantly dodging games in progress, since for every time you stumble upon one you won't play, there's someone else who would, and inside the game they would be praying for that person to appear.
Last but not least, entering a game that has already started can be quite an abused feature; for example, players waiting till they find a game their team will be already winning even with the leaver, or players entering only to freely try out a champ with no real interest in playing to win. This system should be watched closely and should be at the same time rewarding and extra dangerous to abuse.
  • I'm not Completely certain how the ELO works.. but... Wouldn't a player of the Same ELO be just fine? The only way I see it truly failing, is if the joinee is one of those players that have just faced a losing streak, and are ergo paired up with players that have the best chance to 'pick them up'... On the other hand, though, the same system makes it possible for players with a Winning streak or Higher skill to join in. Is it possible to restrict access to One of these, and not the other, and would we want to?
  • ... the whole "lock you in" thing seems a bit of a sensitive proposal. If it's a given, then I suppose the only way to Regulate it would be to treat it like a normal Queue (in terms of Dodging ), and to give joiners a time limit. Wouldn't be all that bad, save for one detail; The player's not Choosing their own champion, and I don't feel it right to punish those that simply don't want to join the game. On the other hand, Locking in the first player that reaches the Summoning screen Might be fine! But, it might discourage other players that are slower or Actually want to play, because someone else beat them to the punch... which, I'm sure, is exactly your argument.
  • As discussed previously, the joining/filling player is faced with the same chance of report and tribunal as everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoradIV View Post
There is a certain problem here, which I think there should be adressed. First one, I think that you should be able to change the items cash for cash or all the items should sold for their full value, and the new player could play as if he was there all long, since you might have a different playstyle (or the last player was a general troll that wanted the worst of his team and bought bad item build for the next to take his place).
I love you. Err.. Also your post. And I think this is a fantastic feature to include. ^_^

...As for the other feature... I guess we can take a vote on that =P
I still don't want to Reward Anyone, including the joining player, because someone else left the game... but this is about as close to a Just reward that I can see.


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Valorius

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Recruiter

05-24-2011

Thing is, as I said, I'm more worried about the system being used by a majority to gain easy wins, like dodging until they find a game that's already being won. There's currently no way to punish that, since while you're queueing for a filler, there's no one there to report you. It might not be easy to dodge that long, since that kind of game is scarce, but still...


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Bane Wraith

Senior Member

05-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
Thing is, as I said, I'm more worried about the system being used by a majority to gain easy wins, like dodging until they find a game that's already being won. There's currently no way to punish that, since while you're queueing for a filler, there's no one there to report you. It might not be easy to dodge that long, since that kind of game is scarce, but still...
...This feature is a Patch for Leavers, though, First off, this system is basically opening the doors to actually Benevolent players that Want to be a filler in a game, and maybe bring back hope to an unfortunate team. Secondly, Either of what was proposed before, would help with the whole dodging thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane Wraith View Post
the whole "lock you in" thing seems a bit of a sensitive proposal. If it's a given, then I suppose the only way to Regulate it would be to treat it like a normal Queue (in terms of Dodging ), and to give joiners a time limit. Wouldn't be all that bad, save for one detail; The player's not Choosing their own champion, and I don't feel it right to punish those that simply don't want to join the game. On the other hand, Locking in the first player that reaches the Summoning screen Might be fine! But, it might discourage other players that are slower or Actually want to play, because someone else beat them to the punch...

..In the former case, players face the same penalties for Queue dodging as normal. (personally not recommended, though... ) .. In the latter case, that's perfectly fine, because you're in no way inhibiting any Benevolent player from accessing the game; the problem is merely One benevolent player beating the other to it.