Perception is reality; The senseless and futile nature of the balance cycle.

First Riot Post
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Bishop

Junior Member

05-05-2011

They also want to change Nidalee.


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Chyrys

Senior Member

05-05-2011

I just want to point out that sarting a thread insulting all readers isn't really a good way to start an unbiased thread.
Also added to that you actually present your current opinion as fact. Are your views really based on objective and factual analysis of the champions (Which the balancing team actually does as much as possible since they gain nothing from nerfs/buffs) you mention in your thread? Are you really that one special person that is totally different from the enitere ''community'' of LoL players?
Therefore I can not see any real fair discussion coming from this thread. Even though it came close.]

Now for my opinion on what I believe is the point you want to make.


While I agree some balance changes are totally useless some are for the good of the game and are noticable. There are also certain design goals for each champion and if they don't fit the game anymore then they will get changed/nerfed/buffed. Apparently everytime a champ gets competitive play there has to be some control over his power and most of all the metagame hes in. Most champs that get introduced into the competitive play are too versatile or powerfull in the eyes of the balance team. While the champs that are part of what you call the ''alumni'' are almost perfect in their design goals and the function they play in the team.
That is ofcourse my current perception.


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Luceid7

Senior Member

05-05-2011

Nice post. I made this point in my Teemo thread back in the beginning of April but nobody listened.

Quote:
Most smart posters have realized that you have difficulty balancing this game because you make huge overreaching nerfs/buffs to try and get it right on the first try.
We don't expect or even want Riot to be gods of balancing. But rather than evolving, the game is in a constant state of turmoil. The whole "FOTM" craze exists only because Riot implements such a fast and heavy handed patching cycle. Since it's impossible for players to develop long term strategies, top players rely on "FOTM" strategies before Riot nerfs them. New "FOTM" strategies pop up and the cycle continues.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=639148

+1

EDIT: Remember this thread?

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=633718

Good Times.


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Darkwahn

Member

05-05-2011

I completely agree with you. Its pretty easy to ee if you look through the forums after like one riot post about a champ. No one was really bothered by shen for a while. Riot mentions something about him, and he does more damage than a DPS and can tank a whole team under thier tower. While killing all of them.


The community is really easily effected as a whole, and you're right that riots constant buff/nerfing instead of letting strategies change, isnt helping.


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RiotStatikk

QA Analyst

05-05-2011
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by samuria View Post
Malzahar: widely regarded as terrible, received a few buffs, still regarded as terrible, sees some competitive play and is now in Riot's 'remake' sights.

Alistar: considered trash to the point where he was about to be fundamentally reworked, a niche was found and hes suddenly a god.
I understand your viewpoint but would like to shed some light on some things you are missing.

Malzahar is indeed perceived as "not-so-great" in most tiers of play (due to difficulty of play and reliance on farm) but he is actually considered god tier in competitive play (ask any top tier player especially in EU). The reason he only sees "some" competitive play is because he is banned in 99% of those games. The only time I've seen Malzahar been able to be picked is when Reginald and Team Solo Mid manage to get him in the draft against other not-as-high tier NA teams.

We are not remaking Malzahar at all. We are really just aiming to tweak some of his high end extremes (which should only mainly affect high tier play) and make his damage output more consistent between different tiers of play. This mainly has to do with the insane potential damage Null Zone can do combined with Nether Grasp and other coordinated CCs. The amount of damage Malzahar can do is pretty absurd in a skilled and coordinated environment, I can math it out if you like but I'm sure you can come up with the numbers yourselves. It is a normal thing for Malzahar late game to kill enemy champions with Null Zone (W) + Nether Grasp (R) alone. To me that's unacceptable.

Regarding Alistar, he was never considered trash by high tier players. He has always been the ideal tank with extremely strong CC/initiation and a very low reliance on farm. He struggled though in lower tiers of play because he is a pure tank who needs good teamwork to make pay off. The goal of Guinsoo's Alistar remake was to make Alistar more viable in lower tiers of play and in general just more fun to play. Alistar was played a lot in high tier before the remake and that was one of the factors for why he got delayed for so long. We knew Alistar was already extremely strong but just underplayed. We needed to make sure we made him a stronger pick in low tier play but keep him relatively the same for high tier.

TL;DR
Alistar and Malzahar are considered top tier picks in competitive play but "trash" in other tiers due to their reliance on farm and/or teamwork. We are not remaking Malzahar but we do intend to tweak his high end numbers and make him overall more consistent in his damage output.


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psikoticsilver

Senior Member

05-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by samuria View Post
Alistar: considered trash to the point where he was about to be fundamentally reworked, a niche was found and hes suddenly a god.
This is an EXTREMELY ill-informed point of view. If you viewed it from his standing JUST PRIOR to his patch, it's sort of true...

If you view it in context, ie the last 15 patches, the ONLY REASON Alistar has found a niche is because every other tank/initiator has been nerfed REPEATEDLY, just as he was back in the day.

He didn't suddenly become a god, the other tanks/initiators were slowly brought to his level through attrition.


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AychAychAych

Senior Member

05-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotStatikk View Post
We are not remaking Malzahar but we do intend to tweak his high end numbers and make him overall more consistent in his damage output.
Just do the math right this time. We don't need another Fiddlesticks mishap.


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Seraphite

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Senior Member

05-05-2011

The title of your thread makes me think of the announcer from the Soul Caliber series.


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SlyGoat

Member

05-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by psikoticsilver View Post
This is an EXTREMELY ill-informed point of view. If you viewed it from his standing JUST PRIOR to his patch, it's sort of true...

If you view it in context, ie the last 15 patches, the ONLY REASON Alistar has found a niche is because every other tank/initiator has been nerfed REPEATEDLY, just as he was back in the day.

He didn't suddenly become a god, the other tanks/initiators were slowly brought to his level through attrition.
except his niche isn't as a tank/initiator. in fact, he's still far, far worse in team fights than shen, malphite, amumu, galio. he just happens to roam better than rammus now (rammus was never really a jungler, he just jungled til level 2-3 because he wasnt a good roamer until then; which is why alistar is better, because he can roam from level 1)


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Dzung

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Recruiter

05-05-2011

alistar was the #1 AD carry before the patch


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