[GUIDE] Ryze at Mid-ELO

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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethernia View Post
Having not played ryze since the patch, decided to go back and try him, was finding i was just getting focused down and eaten up pretty quickly.

Gave your mastery/item/skill build a go and i must say, huge improvement, just went 7/0/15, though against meh competition, still, thanks for posting this .
Thanks for the feedback! This guide is clearly suited to your needs, as I had the exact same experience with Ryze: he is super squishy and a high priority target for a team with half a brain.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by GG Crono View Post
Very good guide!

Myself, I like to get extra points in Overload early if only for the cooldown reduction they provide, thus making it more spamable. But in my build, I use Spell Flux just for the debuff. Are extra points in it really all that worthwhile mid-game?
Thanks for the praise, great to know I am doing something right lol! My first guide so I really appreciate the feedback.

The leveling Overload question keeps coming up, so I might have to actually write another section just for this issue. At level 1 Overload costs 50 mana and has a 10.27 second CD for me with my Masteries/Rune setup. It does 120 damage at level 1, and at level 5 does about 170 (I think) with my Catalyst (Overload still at lvl 1). The cooldown reduction for additional points is very nice, but it ramps up the mana cost which I find prohibitive in the early game since I don't use Tear of the Goddess early.

In terms of doing pure damage, there is no question that leveling up Spell Flux/Rune Prison does waaaay more damage and benefits much more from your AP scaling with Soulstealer. Let's do some math.

Overload has a .45:1 AP ratio, which quite frankly blows. The 10% bonus damage from your mana pool does not scale with additional points, and even at lvl 5 (which you get at level 9), Overload's CD is still roughly 6 seconds, which in gank terms is too long to realistically use it twice on the same target. For mid game ganking, single volley burst is the name of the game, so the better cooldown on Overload doesn't mean much more than you can spam it more on creeps, but then you will run out of mana really fast.

Spell Flux has an AP ratio of .33:1, which sounds bad but is actually really good. When you are bouncing it between you and your target it will hit three times, and generally even in a cloud of creeps Flux hits the initial target at least twice, usually three times. This means that Flux's effective AP ratio is more like 1:1. Flux has an 8 second CD, or the same as Overload at skill level 3. It gains 20 damage per level, but with the 2-3 hit system that means Flux is gaining more damage per level than Overload, and at skill level 3 (90 damage per bounce) is already doing as much if not a lot more single target damage than Overload (2 hits = 180 3 hits = 270 not counting Magic Reduction, since Overload will obviously get this too because Flux always goes first in the spell chain). So what this means is that in terms of pure damage to a single target, it is better to go with Flux over Overload. But wait. Now let's talk about AP scaling.

Your minimum bonus from AP at level 6 will be 60 from Desperate Power, which will provide a paltry 27 bonus damage to your Overload. Compare this to the 20 bonus damage each bounce of Spell Flux gets and you can already see that Flux benefits much more even from just your Ultimate, to say nothing of what happens when that Soulstealer starts ramping up counters.

The third argument for Spell Flux comes from its incredible synergy with Desperate Power at all stages of the game. The scary part about Spell Flux is that it clearly outpaces Overload with even only two direct hits, so one initial and one bounce back, and with three hits Overload really is left far behind. This is amplified even more by Desperate Power, which means that in an ideal situation, the initial target will take the 3 ramped up hits from Flux (with much more damage due to better AP scaling/better damage scaling) and also take 2 additional hits of 65% splash from the two bounces that don't directly connect. More math:

Level 7 Ryze with lvl 1 Rune Prison lvl 1 Spell Flux lvl 1 Desperate Power and lvl 4 Overload.

Your Rune Prison does 104 damage with AP scaling from your ult. Your lvl 1 Spell Flux does 150 (three bounces) +60 with AP scaling, + another say 50 for the gradual stripping of MR due to debuff. Your Overload does 175 damage + 27 due to AP and say + 100 for mana, since you will have a Catalyst by then. Good solid smack for 300, and because this is coming after ALL of the MR debuffs from Flux it will probably hit for closer to 400 if you take into consideration how much would have been prevented by the stripped MR. Not bad for a level 7 nuke. Total damage = 104+260+400=764. Multiply this all by 65% for the AOE effect that also applies to the primary target and you get 1260. Ouch.

Level 7 Ryze with lvl 3 Rune Prison, lvl 1 Overload, lvl 2 Spell Flux and lvl 1 Desperate Power.

Your Rune Prison lasts longer, thus making it more likely that the Spell Flux will hit him multiple times. The prison does 160 damage +48 for AP scaling. The Spell Flux does 220 damage + 60 for AP scaling, and say another 70 for the stripping of MR debuff (higher initial damage so higher strip equivalent). Your Overload does 70 +27 for AP scaling +100 for mana and say + 66 for the MR debuff effect (+66 vs +100 = 200 vs 300). Total damage = 208+350+265=823 * .65 = 535. 823+535 = 1358 damage. More ouch. And what is significant here is that the more AP you get, the more there is a damage disparity between these two builds. If you go my standard build and get lvl 4 Rune Prison instead of lvl 2 Spell Flux, they are roughly equal, but then the disparity comes back at lvl 8 when you level Spell Flux, and by level 11 my way is doing about 50% more damage with some AP from Soulstealer, not to mention that the AOE is also much harsher.

Check my math of course, I am an English Major lol and it is all fuzzy, but that is a pretty solid argument against leveling Overload in my opinion.


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GG Crono

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Thanks for the words. I'll try leveling Spell Flux over Overload next game.

I can't afford a lot of runes at the moment (most of my IP has gone to champions ), but my first item after getting a Veil and my boots is usually a Glacial Shroud, which works very nicely on Ryze.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by GG Crono View Post
Thanks for the words. I'll try leveling Spell Flux over Overload next game.

I can't afford a lot of runes at the moment (most of my IP has gone to champions ), but my first item after getting a Veil and my boots is usually a Glacial Shroud, which works very nicely on Ryze.
If your core items are Veil/Shroud/Sorc boots/Mejai's Soulstealer then I think you have a good build. Soulstealer really does give you all the AP you need, so after that CD/Survival is the way to go!


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GG Crono

Senior Member

02-08-2010

I'll start trying Soulstealer once I'm more confident in my kill-getting and not-dying abilities.


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Samus Araan

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by GG Crono View Post
I'll start trying Soulstealer once I'm more confident in my kill-getting and not-dying abilities.
Heh fair enough! At 1235 gold it is easy to fit into your build.


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The Ringwraith

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Senior Member

02-08-2010

Bookmarked, thanks


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Zigy

Junior Member

02-08-2010

thanks for the guide.. and the response.. i do like the setup.. but i did leave an open slot and do buy BV.. but only as needed.. Im still a bigger fan of TOG early.. by i didnt think about getting rylai's.. i will throw it into my buy..


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gun fu panda

Senior Member

02-09-2010

Hey Samus:

I posted another thread, but I wanted to ask directly in your thread as well. Have you considered going Lichbane instead of Rylai's for your last item? It seems that the mana and MR synergize well with the build your going for, giving you a little bonus damage + defense against THE NEMESIS (veigar). Also, the proc seems to fit the ryze mentality very well, as it gives you a straight +200-300 damage in your combo if you throw out an auto attack.

Thanks


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Meta

Member

02-09-2010

Cool guide Samus.

I tried Ryze shortly after the remake. I played a build maxing cooldown reduction first (usually entailed getting a Banshee Veil and Frozen Heart early for the survivability). I had a few good games, but most I felt pretty limited, so I kinda gave up on him. However, you've brought a lot of new ideas to the table which I haven't attempted yet, so I'll have to give it a go.

One question that it doesn't look like you really touched on. Ryze is a pretty poor last-hitter, which is part of what's so frustrating about playing him. Do you have the same problem when you play him, or have you found a more effective way to farm gold? Obviously if you're getting the early-game kills it's not as much of an issue, but that can't always be counted on.


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