A new way to learn the League

First Riot Post
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Raasu

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Alright, I'm back. I'll start with what I saw as positive.

The logo you guys are using is great. It's creative and catchy, very artistically clever. The stylization of d(iamond)b(ronze) with the color palette complete with the eye design is unique and solidifies in one's memory the name of the channel (DiamondNBronze)and the name of the video series (Eye of the Diamond). I like the back and forth dynamic of the speaking in the videos with Loco asking questions and Harlequin answering. You've done a great job presenting important information in the videos, there's a fantastic amount of information picked into each one even with the short length. Every one of them has good quality tips. The fact that they're short makes it very easy to swallow for players that don't want to spend a load of time researching or listening to in-depth lecturing. This last point will bring you many viewers once you get going. I also LOVE that you went into human behavior! I don't think a single other educational poster has covered this directly in any sort of detail.



Now for what I think could be changed or improved on. This section will probably be longer since I'll be giving ideas on what specific things I think could have been done differently.

Some of it is unclear, unprofessional, or even potentially insulting. The first video was the primary offender and I ended up watching them all to be sure I wasn't making this comment in ignorance of what had already been improved. You did much better throughout the other three videos but there were still some elements of this present in later videos.

An example: In episode 1 at around 1:10 Harlequin said Loco was playing like a ***** but it wasn't relevant to the discussion. In fact it may give people the wrong idea. As a Riven in lane against a J4 you WANT to play like a ***** for the first two levels until you reach your power spike for maximum trade potential. Saying this could be mistaken for telling someone they should have been playing more aggressive. Being satirical is fine but remain precise on what the issue is in the situation.

Example #2/3: These next points are a matter of preference on a person-by-person basis and I personally do not mind them. Others may and so I'm posting it due to relevance, however, you can probably take this with a grain of salt. In episode 3 around 1:15 Harlequin mentioned reasons for losing a trade and said "...due to misplay or any other reason, like being bronze..." Bronze players viewing this may be offended by the comment or they may find it funny, this will depend largely on the person and their self-esteem. Simply be aware of this, no real need to change it. The next example is in the same video around 2:05 and onward. Harlequin is killing enemies in the video and there is added comical text. Some people viewing may find it unprofessional or may miss bits of what you're saying by rewinding the video or paying close attention visually to see what the text says. Again, this is not a negative or a problem per se but may not be attractive to all viewers. Be sure you know your target audience.



Now I'll give you guys some ideas on what I'd like to see in future videos because I'll definitely keep following this series!

In episode 2 you guys pointed out that tanking minions made freezing lane less attractive to mid and bot laners but you didn't point out why. I'd like to see a little more depth of discussion on things like this in the future or maybe just a quick explanation of the point (I.E. why mid and bot lane should avoid tanking creep damage).

In a future behavioral video I think you should expand on ways you can use some of the tricks you've already gone over in past videos in combination! For instance you say in episode 2 that you may need jungler help to break an opponent's freeze if you're behind in lane. A way to do this without relying on your jungler who may not come or may be attending to other responsibilities would be to combine the tactic of pretending to have gone B that you mentioned in episode 4 with the explanation of the mechanic of freezing lane! This way you can pretend to go to base and the enemy will either leave or push the lane. In the first case you can simply shove to their turret quickly and follow suit by going to base to get back to lane before they can push to your tower. In the second case you can simply go back out to show them you are in fact still there and they will have already broken their own freeze!



Those are my first thoughts, sorry it took me a while to post them, I wanted to be sure I covered the why's, when's, and how's. :P I hope the feedback helps! Great job to you guys, I hope you keep making videos for a long time!


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The Harlequin

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Recruiter

07-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raasu View Post
...
Well first of all, a HUGE thank you for this feedback. This is the kind of thing that'll help us get better over time.

As you noticed, we quickly dialed down on the "friendly insults" and went more towards the route of "friendly bickering" since it felt like it would reach a broader audience.

Your post also solidified our intention to make episode 6 about minion aggro (and we went with that, thanks to you!).

Glad to have someone willing to write out their thoughts. Thanks!


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Raasu

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Just watched episode 5 and I gotta say that was damn good. The friendly bickering was at what I would call the perfect level and it even made me grin while I was watching. You guys are improving drastically every video it seems. Thanks a ton for making the videos, I just subbed (forgot to earlier) and I'm gonna share these with some friends of mine who I think could benefit the next time I log onto league! I'm certain if you guys just keep at it and advertise the channel enough you can get big. Watching these is turning out to be a refreshing change from all the other styles of educational league videos.

I can see it a few months from now when you have a bunch of videos: People discovering these for the first time and due to the short and sweet nature of them watching them all in a marathon because they just can't seem to get enough of the info. Extremely watchable in these last couple videos and I can only assume it will get even better! I'm excited for you guys! ^_^


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The Harlequin

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07-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raasu View Post
Just watched episode 5 and I gotta say that was damn good. The friendly bickering was at what I would call the perfect level and it even made me grin while I was watching. You guys are improving drastically every video it seems. Thanks a ton for making the videos, I just subbed (forgot to earlier) and I'm gonna share these with some friends of mine who I think could benefit the next time I log onto league! I'm certain if you guys just keep at it and advertise the channel enough you can get big. Watching these is turning out to be a refreshing change from all the other styles of educational league videos.

I can see it a few months from now when you have a bunch of videos: People discovering these for the first time and due to the short and sweet nature of them watching them all in a marathon because they just can't seem to get enough of the info. Extremely watchable in these last couple videos and I can only assume it will get even better! I'm excited for you guys! ^_^
Telling other people is the best way to help us get big, so we can't ask for more!


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boourns

UI Designer

07-06-2014
1 of 3 Riot Posts

Awesome content! Love the concept of a diamond and bronze player talking. He's like your Counselor Troy!

Best thing that will help people learn is to summarize and reinforce at the end. Run through a list of tips on screen as you're doing your closing gameplay reel, put a list of lessons in the video description, etc. One thing we definitely learned in our testing is that just telling someone something once doesn't make it stick. Using speech, action, and text can help people retain things. Ultimately though, doing it yourself works the best. You can also bring back lessons in the future to help people recall things they've learned in the past and reinforce again.

Nitpicky feedback, the color balance/contrast/etc. of the play capture changes. You should try to get that to be consistent. Not sure if it's from different capture sources or a side effect of the overlays you add.


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The Harlequin

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07-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Awesome content! Love the concept of a diamond and bronze player talking. He's like your Counselor Troy!

Best thing that will help people learn is to summarize and reinforce at the end. Run through a list of tips on screen as you're doing your closing gameplay reel, put a list of lessons in the video description, etc. One thing we definitely learned in our testing is that just telling someone something once doesn't make it stick. Using speech, action, and text can help people retain things. Ultimately though, doing it yourself works the best. You can also bring back lessons in the future to help people recall things they've learned in the past and reinforce again.

Nitpicky feedback, the color balance/contrast/etc. of the play capture changes. You should try to get that to be consistent. Not sure if it's from different capture sources or a side effect of the overlays you add.

Actually, the plays at the beginning and end have a 50% black&white effect on em since they're not directly related to the content.

Also, adding visual cues at the end sounds like a really awesome idea. We're gonna try it out for the next vid!


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Pushover

Senior Member

07-06-2014

A few nitpicking comments about the content, although these videos are doing a great job:

@EP 1: Riven's level 1 isn't actually worse than J4's, it's just that in a single autoattack trade, J4 is king. If Riven actually goes in on J4, they trade about evenly. J4 can however outpush Riven level 1 because of his passive on minions to hit level 2 first.

@EP 2: Bottom lane actually has a lot of lane freezing, simply because the support when ahead can easily zone. It might not be for 4+ waves like top lane can be, but the effects are huge. Considering you are a Leona main, I'm sure you have frozen the lane outside your turret and just run back and forth in the bushes while your AD keeps the lane frozen.

@EP 3: I would probably have pointed out that when zoning, it's a little dangerous without a ward, as you are farther up than you would be normally farming. By threatening to harass, you are also saying you are willing to fight, making you incredibly easy to bait into a fight when the jungler comes up.

@EP 5: Another way to deny would be to cover the health bar of the minion with your own, it's less effective but safer as your opponent has to click on the minion's HP bar to check it. It occurs on accident in the 'Renekton denies Riven the cannon' segment, although Renekton stuns Riven anyways.

I think an episode about keeping health high would be good, I see a lot of lower level players lose lane either because they don't use health potions to keep themselves able to trade (and get zoned or killed), or don't buy health potions or enough of them in a lane that is going to need them.

As has been mentioned, bullets of text to summarize would improve these vidoes.

These are really helpful videos, it's guides like these that can really make a player better, moreso than how to play X champion. Great job so far.


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Coredor

Senior Member

07-06-2014

good job, I think the videos are too short though. You should try and fit more into one video.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

07-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushover View Post
A few nitpicking comments about the content, although these videos are doing a great job:

@EP 1: Riven's level 1 isn't actually worse than J4's, it's just that in a single autoattack trade, J4 is king. If Riven actually goes in on J4, they trade about evenly. J4 can however outpush Riven level 1 because of his passive on minions to hit level 2 first.

@EP 2: Bottom lane actually has a lot of lane freezing, simply because the support when ahead can easily zone. It might not be for 4+ waves like top lane can be, but the effects are huge. Considering you are a Leona main, I'm sure you have frozen the lane outside your turret and just run back and forth in the bushes while your AD keeps the lane frozen.

@EP 3: I would probably have pointed out that when zoning, it's a little dangerous without a ward, as you are farther up than you would be normally farming. By threatening to harass, you are also saying you are willing to fight, making you incredibly easy to bait into a fight when the jungler comes up.

@EP 5: Another way to deny would be to cover the health bar of the minion with your own, it's less effective but safer as your opponent has to click on the minion's HP bar to check it. It occurs on accident in the 'Renekton denies Riven the cannon' segment, although Renekton stuns Riven anyways.

I think an episode about keeping health high would be good, I see a lot of lower level players lose lane either because they don't use health potions to keep themselves able to trade (and get zoned or killed), or don't buy health potions or enough of them in a lane that is going to need them.

As has been mentioned, bullets of text to summarize would improve these vidoes.

These are really helpful videos, it's guides like these that can really make a player better, moreso than how to play X champion. Great job so far.
Riven is bit stronger at an all in, like you said, but only if the circumstances are equal. Due to J4 being the better early wave clearer and the more tanky guy, he can sit back and farm, while Riven has to tkae the initiative, and that means she hs to fight on the enemies side under his minions. And so she is actually weaker as long as there is an equal amount of minions (or when she has less).
Also the HP seals + Armor quints are pretty good on J4 against these AD heavy melee champs, especially if you are unexperienced in more offensive trades against them.
Rivens lvl 1 is always great, but the minions are often removing that advantage from her most of the time, because she has to be the aggressive one if she wants to use that advantage.

Bot lane freezing is a thing when the skill gap is pretty high most of the time. I often see a Sivir using her Q to get 1 minion while hitting 2-3 others. So she is pushing at high range, making it more easy for the enemy to freeze even longer for geting only 1 CS while they can deny 2-3 more. Most of the freezing happens because of such actions or because there are not enough wards or the bot lane is way out of sync.
I laned against Froggen in a 5v5 (He played Corki and I was Sona) and he zoned us together with his support. But our minion wave was actually pretty big and all we had to do was to force a fight in a position where our minions would help us more than 10 minions AA an enemy ADC is a lot of dmg. In the end, he knew that he could try it without risking too much (jump away), and we were forced to break it, but I needed around 2 waves to convinve my ADC that we can do it without actually risking a bad fight for us.
A lot of people in lower Elos would try to stay passive and farm at range with AOE skills (what is really bad most of the time) instead of trying to break it, because one of the 2 bot laners is too scared.

And a HP episode would deginitely be awesome. Sustain is so important and it has a huge impact on the lane.

I love these episodes, because it could teach some of my mates, how to lane more efficent.


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The Scyphozoa

Senior Member

07-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Awesome content! Love the concept of a diamond and bronze player talking. He's like your Counselor Troy!
It's Troi...
...and are you implying that Picard is a bronzie??