Undeath, Terror and Acid Hunters: Let's talk Urgot

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Golden Dawn Mage

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Urgot is the best duelist ADC, once he ults, his ult plus his barrier plus his passive means he wins any duel bot lane. 120 cd at all ranks is double the window of time that it should be. It should be 60 second CD ult, at least test this on PBE. He is not a poking ADC, it is a shame so many urgot players got that misconception of urgot and are the reasons his win rate is low, cause they play him as a poker and not a passive farmer who "all-ins" with ult.


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aceofsween

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Hey Meddler,

It seems to be a theme with a lot of champions that their "most defining elements" are also the ones which are most difficult to balance. Kassadin's Riftwalk is a great example of how it's such a struggle to really allow the oldest of champions to maintain these really problematic skill sets without being completely overbearing.

How will Urgot be any different? When E+Q feels strong, Urgot's a very problematic lane bully that is kinda binary. Either he lands the E and thrashes you, or his misses the E and hangs back and farms at range. It seems like the changes your proposing are going to actually encourage this exact playstyle. So unless his opponent has the ability to close on him during his moment of weakness (i.e. when E is down), I think we're going to be right back where we started.

I think a healthier Urgot would be one whose Q functions like a Corki/Ziggs Q (basically a lobbed AoE shot). It gives his opponents the ability to react to what Urgot is doing and allows Urgot the ability to harass his opponent without needing to rely on E all the time. With this interaction gone, his E could be tweaked to give him a bit of utility that he's kinda lacking. A slow or snare tied to E maybe? That would still pay some homage to the current E+Q (and you could still grant a bonus effect if you really wanted to reinforce that playstyle), but I'm kinda just spitballing here.

Thoughts?


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Ask the Herald

Member

07-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Blahblahblah
Urgot only has TWO abilities that legitimately deal damage: Acid Hunter and Noxian Corrosive Charge. And they deal sh*tty damage overall. Their base damages are too low to make a difference, and their scaling bonus damage is just as garbage.

His mana costs are NOT what makes him nonviable and unresponsive, it's his kit's lack of real synergy and his overall horrible damage output.


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jjamesh

Junior Member

07-05-2014

What If Urgots Shield ability still scaled with AP but the slow would become stronger with the more AP you have. This would allow people to still build AD and be able to kite with Urgot a lot easier.


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Necrophiliac47

Junior Member

07-05-2014

I like Urgot's kit as it is, his ult is great in certain situations and I like it, but since you don't use it unless you have a good opportunity, Urgot's ult should have a passive on it.


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Cpt Seal Clubber

Member

07-05-2014

Ya urgot is just confused on what he wants to be, adc bruiser tank? In his current role I believe he is best top lane bruiser tank (manamune black cleaver then tank). For small buffs let him switch with other targets than just enemy champs with his ult, ie swap in your Diana to the squishes in the back line just an idea, get rid of ap scaling on shield, though it does make it tempting to buy a zhonyas for when you ult into the other team. His e-q lock on make him urgot, if you want him to be a marksman have q cd scale with as and allow him to aa and q at the same time this way it atleast makes building adc items worth it on him and help his dps. If you choose to go more tanky anti carry make his shield more relevant, the slow is really good and allows him to kite very well, however make armor or health scaling, that way he can survive better when ulting.

That all said the hardest part to balancing urgot is his passive this lets him out duel almost any champ early game, this adds to his tankyness but it's hardy useful when you ult into 4 people of the other team sacrificing yourself for their carry, you don't have time to make use of it before dying. I think changing his passive will allow you to buff other aspects of his game giving him more of an identity of what he should be


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Falling Objects

Senior Member

07-05-2014

@Meddler, I have to ask. Is there any specific input on Urgot that you're still looking for, especially from a player who probably has more experience and a much better comprehension of him than the majority?

I'm available to discuss the finer points of crab battling if you'd like my input. I'll pin this thread and scan it occasionally, just quote me in your next post and I should be able to notice. I also have another thread where I gripe about how the current drafted muramana changes would affect Urgot (for the worse, mostly), if you're curious to give that a read.


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My opinion on Urgot's identity as a champion though? Being underestimated is part of WHO Urgot is as a champion. Hell in his lore, he defied death how many times? He's a bit of a sleeping behemoth now, but when he wakes up...

People laugh at me in champ select or straight up threaten to report me (until I refer them to my Lolking page, and then they ask how much I paid for my boost). That underestimation extends to the enemy team doubly though. People think they can take me playing with one hand. People get cocky, and make really stupid mistakes. And then once they're in, they won't get away. Now you're stuck in my web.

Elise may be the spider, but she's got nothing on Urgot.


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Final Raid Boss

Senior Member

07-05-2014

What is Urgot's role going to be? Is he going to be a top laner, mid laner, adc, a jungler?


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Thornmaelstrom

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Senior Member

07-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
One change I'd like to test, but have only limited confidence in at present, is having his shield scale with mana instead of AP.
I like the idea of adding in a Mana scaling, but I don't like the idea of removing the AP scaling without adding in MORE mana scalings elsewhere on the kit. Design trends have gotten progressively more pidgon-holey as things go on, and things that "aren't the best-case scenario" are just being pruned. Back in the ol' days, auto-attacks scaled off AD, and spells scaled off AP. Not quite period, so I'll use a semicolon here; the only exception was On-Hit Spells like Ez+GP, and they were pretty special for that. I was honestly surprised, and pleased, that Sivir's rework left an AP ratio on her Q, and that kind of made me happy (even though it's not even in the slightest bit feasible for her to do AP, unlike say Ez/Trist, or even Siv's trollicious epic battle between Lord Voldemordekaiser & Miss Dumbledortune.

Anywho, leaving a little shred of feasibility for enjoyable off-builds is not an inherently unhealthy thing in League, and infact can add a richness. It would be nice if Urgot's shield kept a really strong AP ratio, and his other tanky/utility aspects (AA's apply mini-exhaust, shield allows slowing, ult buffs his tankiness) scaled too so Urgot could wiggle himself into a silly bully-support role.


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DSerigale

Senior Member

07-05-2014

I remember suggesting the shield scaling off Mana haha.

Anyway, about Urgot's E. Rather than a skillshot, why not make it like a scan-channel ability? Urgot scans the area in a cone front of him and locks onto them. Enemies will be able to interrupt him or move out of range(that is the scan will be visible to both parties) which I believe can count for some form of counter-play. I thought of this when I looked at Urgot's artificial eye and wondered what purpose it had.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4548945

I came up with this rework mostly based on the whole Battle Tank theme. It may or may not have any practicability whatsoever. Give it a read if you fancy.