Undeath, Terror and Acid Hunters: Let's talk Urgot

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

07-05-2014
13 of 24 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tea View Post
That...zombie thing is next? I called the next work wrong? OUTRAGEOUS.
Next major rework (so full visual update, really big kit changes, lore update etc). Might well see some smaller reworks and/or visual updates first though, not certain on the timing of those off the top of the head.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Potato Jesus

Member

07-05-2014

Do you think you can give urgot some compensation for the planned manamura changes, as it completely takes away urgots late game power that he needs to stay relevent and gives bonus effects quite useless on him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ginga

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

07-05-2014

Meddler, if you're reading this, how does making his shield scale off AD sound?


AP is such a useless stat on him, especially as there is literally only one thing that scales off AP for him, and he will NEVER get any items with AP outside of the Baron buff or an allied Lulu. If not AD, scale off his health? Scale off Armor?


And is it possible to make him less reliant on his E+QQQ combo? If you land it, the opponent's gone! Nothing they can do but hope they're built with sustain. But if you miss it, there's little you can really do without the armour shred+lock on. Feast, or famine.
----------------------------



Also, since you mentioned Lore. May I suggest giving him an interaction with Viktor? Viktor has a hard on for becoming more and more machine. Urgot is basically what Viktor aspires to be, except Urgot knows exactly what kind of eternal torment it is to be part machine. Their in-game interaction should be Urgot snidely berating Viktor over his foolish self-destructive goal of mechanizing himself. Viktor, likewise, should mock Urgot for not being happy for being part machine.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rental Pjs

Junior Member

07-05-2014

THANK YOU for looking at my beloved Urgot, and for not pushing him into a generic role. I really feel is defined as the ranged AD bruiser and not a AA focused champ. I really like the looks of what is being tested on him, but I still feel like I should voice my opinion.

First off, why I love Urgot:

  • He is the epitome of a duelist. His passive in conjunction with his core-itemization and ultimate make him a force to be reckoned with in the 1v1 match-ups. I have had times where people think they can take the "lowly Urgot" and funnel into my beautiful death machine leading to extended triples and quadras.
  • He can take a few different build paths. If you snowball early, you can get an Iceborn, TriForce, Last Whisper, Black Clever, etc; If you can't snowball, build a Frozen Heart and some defensive boots and just be really darn annoying when it comes to fights and potentially get a couple snipes with your Q.
  • He leads to a lot of mind games. Back when LeBlanc was super-duper popular mid, I would bait an all in under tower with around 200-300 health to only ult her and cause her to take massive damage from turret before finishing with a locked-on Q.
  • His Q, W, and E all synergize AMAZINGLY.
  • He is the most gorgeous champ on the rift (eat your heart out Taric :3)

Next, my Personal Opinions of Urgot's Problems:
  • He is labeled as a marksman. Take that tag off and put in Fighter. He is more akin to Jayce than he is to anyone who makes there way into a duo lane.
  • He has some trouble last hitting. Many times I am forced to get farm with my Q, which in turn makes me a less viable duelist since I waste mana.
  • If he doesn't snowball hard he can sometimes really be non-existent come late game.
  • The E+Q combo can sometime be unclear. Say enemy Teemo stands in the middle of a wave and you hit him with your E, while trying to land your Q's, a great deal of time the minions get chosen instead. Could definately be more of a player issue than mechanical, but some help to the clarity would be nice.
  • You took the nipples off his base splash. It's a bit game breaking, GG.

Thanks so much again for treating one of my favorite champs with some love. First Brolaf, then Tree, now Urgot. I'm in seventh heaven!

Hopefully I was able to help out a bit.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rastamon Ganja

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Will there be any changes to his W and E?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

07-05-2014
14 of 24 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
Meddler, if you're reading this, how does making his shield scale off AD sound?


AP is such a useless stat on him, especially as there is literally only one thing that scales off AP for him, and he will NEVER get any items with AP outside of the Baron buff or an allied Lulu. If not AD, scale off his health? Scale off Armor?
One change I'd like to test, but have only limited confidence in at present, is having his shield scale with mana instead of AP. Doing so would offer some additional build distinction for Urgot (tanky mana build versus raw AD/pen build) and supports using Tear which I feel's fun and synergizes well with the Q refund change if that sticks. Potential downsides are a risk of forcing Urgot down a single build path, damage and tankiness from one stat via Manamune/Muraman (snowball issues) or alternatively, if the Muramana changes go through, a lack of appropriate mana items to support such a passive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato Jesus View Post
Do you think you can give urgot some compensation for the planned manamura changes, as it completely takes away urgots late game power that he needs to stay relevent and gives bonus effects quite useless on him.
Yeah, would definitely want to add some compensatory power somewhere if we go ahead with those changes and they cut significant power off Urgot. Not sure what form that would take yet though, few things such as a the possible mana scaling above, I'd want to look into to help make that decision.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

arandomyoungling

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Oooh, interesting!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

immortalibra

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Hey all.

Long delayed update here and a change of plans. My original hope had been that we'd be able to rework Urgot's gameplay without needing substantial art support. That's proven to be too optimistic however, with the sort of changes we'd like to make including some new skills and other functionality changes that need animation, spell effects, sound and potentially model changes. Urgot is on our list for such a full rework, that's a ways off though (Sion's up next for major reworks, and we've been tentatively discussing Poppy as an option for after that, though that's not yet certain). As a result the new plan's to do some much shorter term work on Urgot that, while it won't fix everything, should help out on some of his issues and get him into a better spot until we're free to do larger scale work on him.

That shorter term work's potentially going to be split into a couple of patches. The first (and I'm guessing that would be around patch 4.15, though not certain on that yet) focusing on some general cleanup and quality of life, with a possible follow up set of changes to add in a bit more power if appropriate.

Tentative list of changes we're looking at for that first patch (note, not yet in testing, so may well change):

Where does Warwicks rework fall in that timeline? If you don't mind me asking


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Salzigorimando

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Why not make acid hunters a toggle-able auto similar to jinxes? Firing at like 1/2 attack speed maybe? Then you could tone down their damage a little since he'd get a few more in when homing, and he can still burn mana for an extended range basic attack. Rewarding the use of his primary damage source as a last-hitting tool, especially when its a skillshot, seems wrong.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GodKilleR 999

Senior Member

07-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Basic attack missile speed increased to 1600 (from 1300)
- Given Urgot's short attack range a more responsive auto attack's appropriate for the risk he's often putting himself in
If that's your goal you're doing it wrong. Increasing an AA missile speed does not make someone safer what it does is facilitate your accuracy at having the last hit when dealing with other damaging source from your team (minions/tower).

What make someone safer is a combination of range and AA animation time, since you're obviously not gonna change his range lets talk about the AA animation. If for example a champ takes 0.25s to complete an AA, that is time where your opponent is able to move against you (be it engaging/poking or just getting closer) regardless of how fast your missile leave after you shoot it what matters is that you had to spend time shooting it. If for example the AA animation was reduced to 0.1s that'd 0.15s that your opponent doesn't have anymore to do something against you. Anyway point is if you want to make him safer you need to decrease the amount of time it takes to do an AA.