Voice Chat Discussion

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Sophitia

Senior Member

4 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I've heard it said often that people believe toxicity is linked to how much anonymity there is in a given context; however, several studies and experiments have shown that that's not true. In fact, the key to whether toxicity is present is not whether there is anonymity, but whether there are consequences for actions.

For example, a lot of news websites and social media sites started adding open comment systems that allowed people to comment on public articles or posts, but only if they logged in to Facebook or other apps that revealed your real name and your profile photo. Very quickly, these sites all realized that reducing the anonymity in these contexts did absolutely nothing in reducing the toxicity of the comments and you still had extremely sexist, racist, prejudice or homophobic comments even when people were forced to reveal their "real" name and profile photo.

I emphasized "real" name because I suppose it's possible for people to create social media accounts that have fake names for the sole purpose of commenting on public articles and posts, but it wasn't the norm by any means.

One of the greatest misunderstandings is that voice chat will reduce anonymity, which will reduce toxicity.
Not to digress too much but...

Are chat restrictions the only kind of punishment we have available to give? It seems like for some people, that's not really enough to make them quit it. Bans aren't effective because these users just hop on a new account. Are suspensions a better strategy? Just curious what kind of punishments you have in mind if that's truly the most effective strategy.

What about positive reinforcement? I'd really love if you guys expanded and revised the honor system, did more things like the baron nashor santa icon, or gave exclusive skins to positive (or even neutral) players. I think encouraging positive behavior through rewards can also be a powerful force to encourage good behavior.


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Bad Fungus

Senior Member

4 Weeks Ago

Sorry I just got home from work, and can't read through all 75 pages here, but hopefully this will help you out Lyte.

But speaking as someone who really only plays DotA these days, voice chat on their end is NEVER a detriment to the game. Admittedly the playerbase there is completely different, but I have literally never once been verbally abused through the voice chat system, nor have I seen it happen to anyone else. I'm not sure how to say it any clearer. In every single one of my games played with DotA's chat system, I have literally never seen a single person get verbally abused through the voice communication system. Chat, yes, but never through voice.

That being said, there's a different mentality over there. Players are much, MUCH more focused on winning vs personal stats. But I think that you guys can learn a lot from the incredibly low level of abuse that DotA has of it's verbal comm system.


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Elazull

Member

4 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingPuffin View Post
Optional becomes mandatory, at least in competitive play, because it's a signficant advantage if your team is in voice mode and theirs is in text mode.

Remind me again who is holding you at gunpoint to use voice chat? Riot provides you a minimap and people don't necessarily utilize that either and that's a significant advantage over teams who don't use it. Riot provides you pings and teams that use it have a significant advantage over teams that don't. The reason people are asking for it is so they can focus on PLAYING instead of TYPING or Issuing pings which detracts from issuing character commands.

I cant think of a single relevant competitive game that forces you to use voice chat. They are all opt-in features.


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moonbat

Member

4 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elazull View Post
Remind me again who is holding you at gunpoint to use voice chat? Riot provides you a minimap and people don't necessarily utilize that either and that's a significant advantage over teams who don't use it. Riot provides you pings and teams that use it have a significant advantage over teams that don't. The reason people are asking for it is so they can focus on PLAYING instead of TYPING or Issuing pings which detracts from issuing character commands.

I cant think of a single relevant competitive game that forces you to use voice chat. They are all opt-in features.
CoD, Halo, CS are all voice chat by default. You have to opt-out specifically.


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Send Me Lewds

Senior Member

4 Weeks Ago

Lyte, tell me one bad thing about voice chat that isn't "it makes toxic people harder to track". Go on. I'll wait.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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4 Weeks Ago
16 of 17 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia View Post
Not to digress too much but...

Are chat restrictions the only kind of punishment we have available to give? It seems like for some people, that's not really enough to make them quit it. Bans aren't effective because these users just hop on a new account. Are suspensions a better strategy? Just curious what kind of punishments you have in mind if that's truly the most effective strategy.

What about positive reinforcement? I'd really love if you guys expanded and revised the honor system, did more things like the baron nashor santa icon, or gave exclusive skins to positive (or even neutral) players. I think encouraging positive behavior through rewards can also be a powerful force to encourage good behavior.
You're touching on the key point, which is that different players respond to different punishments. We find that on average, about 67% of players improve their communication patterns after just 1 chat restriction experience. If players get chat restrictions and a reform card from the Tribunal that outlines exactly what behaviors led to their punishment, the reform rate goes up to ~75% (varies a bit depending on the server).

To give a comparison, about 60% of players improve their behaviors after a game ban, and about 70% of players improve their behaviors after a game ban and receiving a reform card. So, on average, chat restrictions tend to do a bit better than game bans when it comes to reform rates; however, game bans tend to force players to create smurf accounts and shift toxicity to lower level players, so there's an additional consequence to using game bans compared to chat restrictions.

We're also able to do things like restrict players from specific queues, or remove Ranked Rewards, or a combination of any of these penalties. We've also considered things like suspending the ability to use skins or specific champions... but these are untested outside of our research labs so far.

Regarding positive reinforcement, we've always had more plans to add a few more features to Honor. Unfortunately, we pivoted the team to work on Team Builder and want to get back and finish Honor after because we believe it has some of the greatest potential to encourage positive behavior. For example, in the new Tribunal, players that are highly honorable will have a chance to be reviewed in the Tribunal, and if their peers vote them as positive, they will get a reward in-game.


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LiveYiOrDieHard

Senior Member

4 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I've heard it said often that people believe toxicity is linked to how much anonymity there is in a given context; however, several studies and experiments have shown that that's not true. In fact, the key to whether toxicity is present is not whether there is anonymity, but whether there are consequences for actions.

For example, a lot of news websites and social media sites started adding open comment systems that allowed people to comment on public articles or posts, but only if they logged in to Facebook or other apps that revealed your real name and your profile photo. Very quickly, these sites all realized that reducing the anonymity in these contexts did absolutely nothing in reducing the toxicity of the comments and you still had extremely sexist, racist, prejudice or homophobic comments even when people were forced to reveal their "real" name and profile photo.

I emphasized "real" name because I suppose it's possible for people to create social media accounts that have fake names for the sole purpose of commenting on public articles and posts, but it wasn't the norm by any means.

One of the greatest misunderstandings is that voice chat will reduce anonymity, which will reduce toxicity.
So the consequences need to be there, and the real question is simply how well you can record verbal abuse in a VOIP program built into your own game and provide it to the tribunal in an easy to read/listen to form, right?


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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4 Weeks Ago
17 of 17 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiftsLikeGaston View Post
Lyte, tell me one bad thing about voice chat that isn't "it makes toxic people harder to track". Go on. I'll wait.
I mentioned this somewhere else, but if a player is using voice chat with strangers and a part of the team is not using voice chat... then on average, the player using voice chat is more toxic in their text-based communication.

So actually, voice chat in many cases makes it even easier to track these players because they end up being toxic in text to the other players on their team who aren't in voice chat.


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Send Me Lewds

Senior Member

4 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I mentioned this somewhere else, but if a player is using voice chat with strangers and a part of the team is not using voice chat... then on average, the player using voice chat is more toxic in their text-based communication.

So actually, voice chat in many cases makes it even easier to track these players because they end up being toxic in text to the other players on their team who aren't in voice chat.
So I'm seeing no reason it shouldn't be implemented.


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moonbat

Member

4 Weeks Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiftsLikeGaston View Post
So I'm seeing no reason it shouldn't be implemented.
It's not about catching people when they're toxic. It's about preventing toxicity and some data points to voice chat making people more toxic to those who don't use it.