Voice Chat Discussion

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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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06-27-2014
12 of 17 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by haaaaaaaalp View Post
Were all 5 members of each team in the voice-chat program for your testing? Most of the toxicity from the games I have played came from the fact that part of the team was on voice chat and did not communicate with the rest of the team. This would not apply if everyone was on the voice-chat. Can you compare the toxicity from teams with 5 members on voice chat vs teams with 0 members on voice chat? I am pretty sure there will be a DECREASE in toxicity when all 5 members are on voice chat.
The key is whether all 5 people are friends or not. If all 5 players are friends and in voice chat, the experience is better. If all 5 players are strangers, the experience is worse. If some players are in voice, and some are in text, the experience is worse.


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Yangpoo

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Them numbers and stats..I'll just put this here....

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HardProduction3

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Which aspect are you curious about?

For part of the analysis you are referring to, we use a sentiment analysis model to review chat logs from a random sample of non-voice chat using players to a random sample of voice-chat using players. Then we break down the analysis in terms of premade sizes, wins versus losses, so on and so forth.

Lyte, could you please go into EUW forum and reply our posts too as well?

I think EU forum also wants response from you!=)


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Iry

Senior Member

06-27-2014

One big thing I do not like about the prospect of voice chat for all games is that, well, even if I "don't have to use it"... I imagine it would be expected of me to use it.

The communication provided by voice chat can be a definite advantage for teamplay in many ways. Thus, by choosing not to use voice chat, I am directly having a negative influence on my team's chances of winning.

There are many many reasons for why one would not want to speak, and also many reasons for why one would not want to have to listen to other people speaking on voice chat. But if opting out of it causes an immediate disadvantage for my team, it immediately creates pressure, both internal (i.e. wanting to do your best and not let your team down, wanting to win etc.) and external (getting flamed or reported for refusing to communicate because you muted the voice chat). At the very least for ranked games, anyways.


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haaaaaaaalp

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Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The key is whether all 5 people are friends or not. If all 5 players are friends and in voice chat, the experience is better. If all 5 players are strangers, the experience is worse. If some players are in voice, and some are in text, the experience is worse.
Where did you get the data of all 5 strangers being on voice chat? Also, have you done a comparison of 5 players being on voice chat vs <5 players being on voice chat? The current system leads to most games having teams <5 players being on voice chat. It would be better for the game overall if voice chat was given to everyone so that teams all have 5 people on voice chat as opposed to 2-3 on voice chat.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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06-27-2014
13 of 17 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akedomo View Post
Starting Elo also has nufink to do with it, aside from the initial rating. If you're bad at the game, you still get put where you belong. That's kinda how Elo works, unless you need to brush up too? You'll keep losing matches and winning very few until you get put in your proper Elo. The same works when you're climbing. You'll win more than you lose, till you start reaching an average of 50% win/loss.

Even if you artifically raised the starting Elo to 2000, Players would still eventually get matched up where they belong. 1700 might become the new Bronze 5, while 2500 the new Diamond 1. You're not trying to tell me that almost everyone in League is Bronze/Silver because that's where they started... Are you? Because not only would that be a lie. You're also forgetting that Riot removed the whole 'Unranked' aspect. So bronze and silver are flooded with players that don't deserve to be in either of them especially not now as the system is setup.

I thank you for your comment, but seeing as my point was that most players in DotA have a higher average MMR(after EARNING IT), and more of the players are around the middle of the MMR pool. There will be more female players of higher skill levels in DotA. This in part is due to the larger difference in skill needed to play DotA vs League. Casual vs Semi-Casual.

Makes me wonder how many Silvers are in this game that don't deserve to be in Silver, yet can't drop a division because of the system you have in place now.
You may want to read up on Elo Systems on Wikipedia.

Do a thought exercise: if I just added a '0' to everybody's MMR in League of Legends, they'd now have more average MMR than other games. There's no point comparing Elos across games unless they use the same variables.

You even mentioned that if we raised starting Elo to 2000, the new Bronze 5 might be 1700 MMR. You just explained why we simply can't compare average MMR across games, unless the scales and baselines are the same.


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eXigenT

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
It's a small pop-up at the end of game that was sent out to a random sampling of players. There's usually no need to send a pop-up to every single player in League; in the social sciences, they've done a lot of work showing that surveying a % of the population can usually get meaningful results that represent the entire population as long as the sampling comes from a representative sample.
While what you say is true, the reason most studies use random sampling is because it is cheaper and less cumbersome than polling every single person in the community. However, since this is a video game, you are the one few places that can actually send a poll out to every single person with little effort. Makes me wonder why you don't just poll everyone?

At the end of the day, the reason for implementing voice chat is to improve overall communication and teamwork, right? I can say with certainty that using Curse Voice or voice chat in other games has improved my game experience lending to better teamwork. Of course you might get a few more cases of toxicity, but are we able to live with this possibility in order to improve our overall gaming experience? I think the answer is an emphatic yes--especially given the ability to mute toxic players in voice chat.


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The Cardmaster

Senior Member

06-27-2014

I definitely agree with your decision to not include public voice chat in the game. I've played way too much call of duty over the years and it's a definite problem there. What I would like to see is a better effort to get people into ranked teams. I've had a lot of fun playing in lol tournaments as well as with a few ranked teams myself, but it never lasts. It'd be cool if you created a system to match players on a team (based on a form we would fill out). Time zone, age, rank, gender, and lane preference among other things would be really cool to have.


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Sadistic Lulu

Senior Member

06-27-2014

no.

i already don't like skyping with friends because i dont want people to know that i sound like a yordle.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Like Amazon, Google, Facebook and other tech companies, we've developed in-house predictive models that can analyze chat logs in real-time and assess the level of certain sentiment. For example, the model can detect whether a chat log was generally positive communication, or generally negative communication, while also being able to specifically look at the frequency of certain words that we've labeled or curated as racist or homophobic (like f*g and f*ggot).

Many third party companies also offer similar services, and many game studios use these services to do things like automatic sentiment analysis of social media to determine player perception of a feature, etc. We built one in-house with some experts in machine learning and language analysis because of the nuance required to build such a model for League of Legends, which has it's own unique lingo and slang.

For issues like premade sizes vs all solos, these factors are all taken into account in most systems in League. For example, most research will take into account the current premade size when considering things like the # of reports filed in a game, and whether it's higher or lower than the baseline for that specific premade size vs the general League average.
Lyte, I think that those services are a mistake. I get why you'd use them, but they don't account for connotation. If you're using software that scans for certain words, you're washing out their meaning. The easiest example is political correctness reguarding the handicapped. Some people get offended by the term 'handicapped', others don't. Some people get insulted just by the term being used, others use it abundantly and even get insulted when people freak out over it. Same happens with the slurs you mentioned, you know that the internet is a bad place to express sarcasm.

The connotation of slurs is also regionally influenced. America for example is a prude country in general. Americans even have words that they don't dare pronounce, so they refer to them with the first letter, much like He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Other demographics/countries don't do this / have different connotations for the same words. The software you're looking into washes all of that out. And it doesn't prevent people with bad intentions from cyberbullying, it just means you're forcing them to invent new language to do it.

Anyway, enough with my concerns towards that system. You also asked for our opinions on voice chat!

In short, HELL NO. I don't want to chat with the strangers. I know myself, I'm biased.
When we go into soloQ games, we judge our allies. We have to judge our allies. If a teammate is worthless for whatever reason, you need to idenfity that and (relatively) ditch that teammate in favor of cooperating with the other teammates more. We all do this, and we have to do it. There's no use peeling for a suicidal marksman when you have a godlike APC. I say this with no judgement towards players, just towards the games I'm trying to win.

Now I personally remain relatively calm over this (I try to rage vocally instead of in chat), but people get mad and start behaving like cancer when they deem too large a portion of their team to be bad at the game or useless in a certain game. The last thing I want to do is introduce more bias into this game that would lead to us judging allies TOO quickly.

When we make these essential judgements, biasses arise. Played with a ton of bad Frenchmen? I'm likely going to be dishearted when I see another Frenchie in game. Been having A LOT of bad experiences with a certain champion consecutively? I might be hesitant when I see another one on my team. If factors like that can cloud our judgement alrdy, then what will voice chat do? You'll instantly hear everybody's nationality. And their gender. And their rough age. I don't want to hear that. I don't want to know who the teenagers are in advance, so I don't have to worry about them being "dumb kids" before they've even done anything wrong. I know that sounds mean, but it's just human nature, I know I'd do it. Also, statistically speaking, certain groups of players WILL be more toxic to play with. Or even just have certain play habits compared to other players. I don't think it's good to know when an ally belongs to such a group in advance for anybody.

Holy hell this post turned out longer than I thought. Have a potato, guys!
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