Voice Chat Discussion

First Riot Post
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Vempyre

Senior Member

06-27-2014

I like the idea of this. I play a bit of Dota 2 and the Ingame chat is interesting.

The thing is, never have I played a match in Dota 2 that had Ingame chat that was civil. Me, having quite an interesting accent only talks to people I really know well when talking League.


If you are going to add it, when you que up, rather it be ranked or normal, have an option to only be qued with people who are OKAY with voice chat enabled, an an option to forbid playing with people who are okay with it being enabled.


Not everyone wants to risk hearing people blare loud obnoxious music for the sake of annoying people. yet, if they always have voice chat muted, they may miss someone who is very helpful with their input.

People don't have to talk with it being enabled, people can just listen and the what not, but really. If you are going to do this, give people an option where they don't have to suffer loss of communication just because they don't want to hear people, rather they be toxic or not, and also have an option to play LoL how it is along side an option with voice chat on.


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Purgatio

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian Melodies View Post
I would not want voice chat to be in this game. I'm legit likely to quit LoL altogether (and this is coming from someone who's been playing almost daily for over three years) if it were implemented. It's a terrible idea, I don't need people knowing every game that I'm a female player and giving me kitchen jokes, I don't need people making fun of my French accent, and I especially don't need to hear 4 strangers' voice speaking about random ****s when I'm trying to play the game to the best of my abilities. Voice chat is a mean of communication that Riot could not moderate, meaning some raging 12 years old gets to call me a ***** for 20+ minutes and the tribunal/Riot has no proof of it when I report him, unless you want to record every voice chat conversation ever so they can be viewed in the tribunal, but seeing as we don't even have game replays built in the client, that seems highly unlikely.

Inb4 "but you will probably be able to turn it off!". Hahahahaha, sure. Yeah, I might be technically able to turn it of. In practice, I won't. Because even if Riot was to clearly state that it's optional (aka not using it does not equal a ban for refusing to communicate) and give us an easy way to disable it if we want to opt out of the voice chat, I'm quite certain refusing to use chat would lead to a fair amount of toxicity ("omg such a ****ing ****** won't turn on his chat must be some ****ty Mexican").
What about a selective mute? Much like how the chat system works. Someone giving you **** for being a girl and making misogynistic jokes for the game? Mute their asses and pay attention to the people who want to be productive.


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icegoat63

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSophia View Post
Im pretty sure if he sees you all are friends he wouldnt be a giant D-bag..
Thats not true, in fact due to lolnexus tattling on whos in what party. The 5th wheel more often than not does D-Bag up in All Chat quite often.


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GodKilleR 999

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akedomo View Post
Maybe the difference between the way girls are treated in HoN/DotA and League of Legends is that in HoN/DotA, they're noticeably more skilled, and in League they're not much more than supports or bad players in general, at least the majority of them aren't.(You have to admit, having 98% of your playerbase below plat/diamond is kinda sad).
You do realize even if everyone went up 10 tiers skill wise the distribution would still be the same right?


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Aeolian Melodies

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epjest View Post
Okay. This is fairly ludicrous.

I would venture to guess that VERY FEW Rioter's play DotA 2 frequently enough to be exposed to the built in chat to have a proper opinion on it.

I have played League of Legends for nearing FIVE years. In Five years I can't count how many raging players I've seen in chat.

I have played DotA 2 for nearing TWO years. In Two years, I've only ever muted FOUR people. Two of which had horrible mic's but wouldn't stop talking.

I've played well over 6k games of League and 2k games of DotA 2.

A built in Voice Chat is NOTHING but an improvement to this genre.
Pretty sure the fanbase for DotA 2 and LoL isn't the same at all.

Plus you're forgetting that some people's voices are dead giveaways when it comes to giving dumbasses weapons to use to be toxic. You're probably not a woman, you're probably not a pre-teen, and you probably don't speak with a foreign accent, for instance.


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Aerothal

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Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
It's a small pop-up at the end of game that was sent out to a random sampling of players. There's usually no need to send a pop-up to every single player in League; in the social sciences, they've done a lot of work showing that surveying a % of the population can usually get meaningful results that represent the entire population as long as the sampling comes from a representative sample (which is why sampling on the forums would be inaccurate). Many social science studies may survey a few hundred people, but in League we usually survey thousands to tens of thousands and usually do surveys for each server separately.
thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it!

But where do we go from here.
the last sentence in your initial post pretty much makes it clear that for Riot a client integrated VC is not an option.
As Curse Voice integrates itself into the client it is against ToS, and therefore not an option either at the moment.
I still want to have the option to Voice Chat with the teammates who also want that.
I thought CV was actually great that way as one had the choice to dial in or not.
I guess i can just hope that they rewrite their app into a pure, non-integrated 3rd party provider which is still easier to use on the fly than all the other VOIP's out there.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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06-27-2014
8 of 17 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windstorm View Post
so, after reading all four posts carefully I'm not entirely convinced your results aren't tainted by variables you've missed in the equation.

the first post seems to completely disregard the old adage of statistics: "correlation does not necessarily imply causation"

I'd be very interested in the methods used to determine how a voice chat was being used, and more importantly what % of the games participants were using it, and which side they were on

too often I see these comments about toxic games, and there is never an indicator given if it everyone in the game that is experiencing it or just the losing side. from a cursory examination, you have several problems:
  1. how to identify the use of a voice communication tool
  2. needing to identify which players of the set of 10 are using the tool
  3. using #2, what is the split of people using voice on each side
  4. given the above, is the toxicity apparent only when losing?
  5. compare toxicity rates of ONLY losing teams to losing teams, and winning teams to winning teams, to get a better appreciation of the ACTUAL impact, instead of "this game was more toxic generally". this helps remove the problem of variability in how teams react to losing situations from game to game
  6. start using this perspective to see how it alters with demographics.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a cynical ******* because I'm so used to reading peer-reviewed journals for human factors, but without exposure and explanation of the methods used its pretty much impossible to take what is written here seriously at face value, especially when there is peer-reviewed behavioral research that both agrees and disagrees with the points presented.
Most of the designers and researchers involved with Player Behavior have published papers in the past, so we definitely feel your pain. However, I hope you understand why it doesn't make sense for us to fully publish detailed methodology in the main post.

To answer some of your initial concerns:
1) It's super easy for us to identify the use of voice chat through a few different approaches. One, for some apps we can detect whether they interacted with the LOL client in some way. Two, we can confirm this with a end-of-game survey asking players if they used voice chat in the current match (and studies have shown that players are pretty honest with these types of surveys, especially if it's a neutral activity and not something viewed as socially undesirable). Three, we can analyze chat logs to determine the exchanging of voice chat information. Using combinations of these heuristics and others, we can figure out who in the set of 10 players is using voice chat.

2) After figuring out #1, yes, we do split the analysis into games that are full premades vs full strangers and everything in-between. We do these splits for most analyses, even when looking at things like Reports and Honor. We have seen time and time again there's huge differences in the data given the varying premade sizes in each game.

3) We actually also separate the analysis into Wins and Losses, as we sometimes see toxicity levels are higher only during losses for some factors; however, in this case, the numbers trended similarly for both wins and losses.


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AlphaKiloGaming

Senior Member

06-27-2014

I don't understand why people want voice chat so much.

1) Rage in chat is more than enough for me. I don't need to hear it as well as read it.

2) Pings should be enough information.

3) If there is a female on my voice chat I don't want to hear her get hit on all match (we all know it will happen).

4) I already voice chat with my friends. That is good enough for me.

5) What makes you think voice chat will improve your game experience? "Well this game has it so I want League to have it!" but will it really add anything?

6) Do you have any idea how hard it would be for Riot to monitor voice chat?


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Aeolian Melodies

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgatio View Post
What about a selective mute? Much like how the chat system works. Someone giving you **** for being a girl and making misogynistic jokes for the game? Mute their asses and pay attention to the people who want to be productive.
What's the point of even having a voice chat if I'm going to end up muting teammates every game? Written chat can easily be ignored without actively blocking the person (so if they type something relevant to the game you can still see it), and written chat leaves proofs for the tribunal to take actions. "LOL GO BACK TO THE KITCHEN MAKE ME SAMMICH SUCK MY DICK ***** LOL" as spoken words isn't that easily ignored without actually blocking the person (then I miss out potential game calls he could make, essentially I'm being punished more than he is), and spoken chat leaves no proofs for the tribunal to take actions. As I said unless Riot was willing to record every game's voice chat and send the recording to the tribunal along with the in-game chat (written) for people to review, the voice chat would just be that wonderful place where you get to be a giant scumbag without repercussions.


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icegoat63

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian Melodies View Post
unless you want to record every voice chat conversation ever so they can be viewed in the tribunal,
This creates an interesting question to. How much will be kept by Riot? Didnt facebook just attempt a "listen in" app and People have been throwing giant fits about what audio they keep and what they dont? As a violation of privacy.