Can you get a chat ban without typing?

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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman Fizz View Post
If the punishment they get are 5 games or 1 game then yes they should have their penalties removed. If you tell someone they are toxic and that they are going to be chat restricted for X amount of games, if they get through those games without being toxic and are still given another penalty then you'd be punishing them without forming any sort of contingency.

If not talking in games is considered acceptable behavior, then why would it be considered unacceptable if the person was being toxic sometime earlier? That doesn't really make much sense. You would be punishing them a 2nd time for their past behavior, and the person getting punished is going to be confused as to why because they thought they already went through their punishment.

Also since the games preceding a 2nd chat restriction involved no toxic behavior from them, they aren't going to understand why they are being banned the 2nd time. When they get the 2nd chat restriction, what they are going to see that as is "You were still toxic so you need a bigger punishment." That may not be why you're giving them the 2nd punishment, but it's what the person is going to interpret it as, which breaks the contingency of punishment you're trying to set up.

If that contingency gets broken up it'll make it harder for them to fix their behavior because they don't know what the problem they have is anymore. To them, not talking in games is now going to be something they think they're not supposed to do even though you said that it's actually perfectly acceptable behavior. You also risk making the person mad by making the 2nd punishment unclear, which could end up causing them to act more toxic ingame.

Instead you should just watch their account more closely after their restriction ends to make sure they generalize their better behavior to games where they aren't chat restricted. If not talking is supposed to be acceptable behavior, then I don't see why you would ever punish someone for doing that under any circumstances.
To touch on this, the first time I got restricted I tried changing, and actually had my restriction removed for almost a week.
Then I got another restriction (no "report card" to tell me why) so I tried being positive again.
And I got another restriction, and tried again.
And got another.
And now I don't really care anymore because there is no feedback whatsoever.


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CrazyMLC

Senior Member

06-26-2014

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Originally Posted by Fisherman Fizz View Post
If not talking in games is considered acceptable behavior, then why would it be considered unacceptable if the person was being toxic sometime earlier? That doesn't really make much sense.
Not talking is a neutral action. It doesn't counteract previous toxicity, and it shouldn't. Of course it will slowly bring your toxicity rating to neutral, but nowhere near as fast as if you worked with your team and gave positive feedback to others.


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Graidon

Senior Member

06-26-2014

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Originally Posted by CrazyMLC View Post
Why do you care if you're banned from chat if you don't want to talk anyway?

You may not realize it but this entire thread is just an excuse to rage at the chat ban system because you want to feel victimized.

I've been there. I talk that way to my mom sometimes. It's an unhealthy response to authority. We've all probably been there. But you need to realize that you aren't acting rationally. Stop justifying your actions.

Do you like to be reminded of having done something wrong when you do something you enjoy? Or do you like to be able to dig out of that hole and start fresh? I would like to remove the negative stigma associated with my account. I am trying just like I have tried. People keep throwing dirt on me here just like they do in the games. The difference is I won't get a chat ban for returning fire on the forums. So I want to chat restriction removed so I can play AS a neutral-positive player. That's all.


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Keizgon

Senior Member

06-26-2014

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Originally Posted by BlazingSalvo View Post
So they're chat restricting the guy who types /ff more than once.
It isn't applied in the form of spammalicious content. Maybe you should understand what outcome means.

Yes I just said spammalicious. Since it is so whacky, stupid, and filled with incongruity along side basic sentence syntax, maybe you'll be able to read competently like a normal person.


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Graidon

Senior Member

06-26-2014

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Originally Posted by CrazyMLC View Post
You're in a different position than those players. You have shown a tendency to be highly toxic.

If you cannot understand and accept that simple concept then you are trolling.

You are feeding into the system. I was negative in the past so I can never be trusted or be positive. You contribute to a broken system where people can never be reformed, only punished.


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Ulanopo

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Ulanopo, just want to say that we agree with most of your points.
Sorry, I have more thoughts on this.

[1] I find it frustrating that your team doesn't seem to understand the difference between specific feedback and general feedback. The Reform Cards are a perfect example of specific feedback, as the player can look at them and see specific things they need to change (or have those things pointed out to them ). I understand that you cannot provide specific feedback at this time.

General feedback, however, could be applied regardless. "We can see that you're working to improve, but you need to try harder. You might want to head over to the TBI/PB forums for advice on some things to consider changing." That's off the cuff, but with a little tweaking, you can give them all the information they need to understand the basis for their punishment.

[2] I don't really have sympathy for the excuse that edge cases have fewer rights than other cases. I expect that every single time a sanction is levied against an account that the punished player receives a sufficient explanation of the basis for that sanction. It's not a question of cost vs. benefit; it's a question of how Riot chooses to conduct its business.

I know I'm not quoting it precisely, but isn't Riot's mission statement their desire to be "the most player-oriented company in the gaming industry"? Do you really think that throwing your hands up in the air and saying "we can't do [these things] while we're rebuilding the Tribunal" lives up to that motto? I don't and it disappoints me, because normally Riot holds itself to an impressively high standard.

[3] I don't understand why failure to communicate with the players isn't a much bigger deal. I know it's a small pond filled with self-selected fish, but the general level of anxiety and frustration in the TBI appeared to go down in response to the creation of the Mini KB: Chat Restrictions. Even generalized, formulaic answers seemed to help a lot of people - if for no other reason than they're answers. It baffles me that you guys don't seem to see any benefit to what amounts to a couple hours' work.

[4] I know I said this before, but it bears repeating. You could come to the TBI/PB any time and ask for feedback. Hell, you could just drop a question, tell us you're not going to engage in ongoing debate and see what comes up. There are some really bright, dedicated people in those forums and I think you would definitely benefit from their input. If it doesn't work out, I'll gladly eat that crow.


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CrazyMLC

Senior Member

06-26-2014

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Originally Posted by Graidon View Post
Do you like to be reminded of having done something wrong when you do something you enjoy? Or do you like to be able to dig out of that hole and start fresh? I would like to remove the negative stigma associated with my account. I am trying just like I have tried. People keep throwing dirt on me here just like they do in the games. The difference is I won't get a chat ban for returning fire on the forums. So I want to chat restriction removed so I can play AS a neutral-positive player. That's all.
I've been diagnosed by a psychiatrist with anxiety and depression. Believe me, I know what it's like to be constantly reminded of your mistakes or even fear mistakes to come. I understand wanting a fresh start. I understand feeling threatened.

But you can't let those feelings guide your actions. You made a mistake. So what? Don't do it again. Try to talk to others without making the mistake again. Prove to yourself that you aren't who you used to be. It takes time and effort. Life is nothing but trial and error.

Nothing will change if you don't try.


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Graidon

Senior Member

06-26-2014

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Originally Posted by jzek View Post
Yeah but I don't think you can be nice with smart pings.
Are you done trolling?


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Scary Door

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMLC View Post
Why do you care if you're banned from chat if you don't want to talk anyway?

You may not realize it but this entire thread is just an excuse to rage at the chat ban system because you want to feel victimized.

I've been there. I talk that way to my mom sometimes. It's an unhealthy response to authority. We've all probably been there. But you need to realize that you aren't acting rationally. Stop justifying your actions.
You're missing the point. This isn't about some rebellious attitude toward authority, this is about a system that frankly doesn't make a lot of sense. I have never been restricted but when the creator of this system and the head of the player behavior department says that they have crafted a system that continues to punish you even if you behave then that is a problem. It's more about the principle than it is about the system itself.

When you punish someone who deserved it and they serve their time (so to speak) and do not misbehave and yet they are handed another punishment immediately it doesn't add up. Punish players that misbehave, fine, but don't keep punishing them when they are not misbehaving that just sends the wrong message.

Guy robs a store, is thrown in jail, serves his time, while walking out of jail he is thrown back in the slammer just to make sure? What sense does that make? Seriously.

Believe me I used to defend this system, but reading the posts I have over the last few days and seeing Lyte's explanation of the system today just made me realize how the setup is flawed.


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Fisherman Fizz

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMLC View Post
Not talking is a neutral action. It doesn't counteract previous toxicity, and it shouldn't. Of course it will slowly bring your toxicity rating to neutral, but nowhere near as fast as if you worked with your team and gave positive feedback to others.
What? There's no reason to factor in any outside games during the chat restriction. If you are going to be restricted for, say, 15 games, and during those games you are not toxic, then there is no reason to give you another restriction. You were already punished for your toxicity before, that's what those 15 games were there for. You should not be punished a 2nd time for those.