Can you get a chat ban without typing?

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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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06-26-2014
8 of 14 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KilljoyX View Post
You know what they say about idiots and hypocrites just let them keep talking they'll use all the rope they have to hang themselves.
Or, we could be constructive and actually read the posts.

You're missing a critical difference in what I just posted.

Players that have never received any penalties before, and not behaved toxic before, will never have an issue not talking.

Players that have been punished before or behaved toxic before are treated differently by systems. So, if players that have been punished recently for toxic behavior do not chat in games, it's treated as "neutral-negative" and not necessarily positive.


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Radier

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Senior Member

06-26-2014

But the real question - are you going to update your Santa Baron forum icon when SR gets updated, Lyte?


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InfiniX

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I'm open to hearing your feedback. Even in the Tribunal, Player Support only manually reviews ambiguous cases, or severe cases (that result in bigger penalties).

Even in the chat restriction system, so few players are affected on most servers that Player Support does review a significant portion of the cases and Player Behavior reviews another significant portion. The teams don't review 100% of cases.

Is the problem you have with the system that there are false positives and positive players being punished, or that we should review 100% of cases regardless of the accuracy of the system?
You should review all cases regardless of accuracy. I already thought it was retarded when you guys decided that the toxic community should judge majority of tribunal cases but this chat restriction bull**** takes a step further in the mounds of stupidity.


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DarkvolcanReborn

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
You're missing a critical difference in what I just posted.

Players that have never received any penalties before, and not behaved toxic before, will never have an issue not talking.

Players that have been punished before or behaved toxic before are treated differently by systems. So, if players that have been punished recently for toxic behavior do not chat in games, it's treated as "neutral" and not necessarily positive.
I don't understand how this is logical.
I've been muted for fighting back against trolls. Fine, toxic fighting toxic, not allowed technically. I stay shut, I ignore kids talking about my mom, I ignore "omfg feeder kill urself" I ignore it all, and chances are, I'll get another mute regardless.
I don't understand the point of this at all.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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06-26-2014
9 of 14 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minocycline6 View Post
@Lyte Wouldn't a much better system be to email a person who gets chat banned, and in that email give their personal chat logs (no other usernames included), so they can see exactly how their behavior was considered wrong and how they can improve
The Tribunal does this, and when the feature comes back it'll start doing this again.


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Graidon

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I explained this in the original post. If a player has behaved in a toxic manner in the past and received chat restrictions, then does not chat at all, sometimes the system does not have enough data to assess the behavior as neutral, positive, or worse. In the player's case, he may not have chatted at all, which is why the system gave him 30 games of chat restrictions this time instead of the 45 he got last time.

If the system thought the player was more toxic, it would have given the player more restrictions, not less. If the player had never received chat restrictions before and never behaved in a toxic manner before, then not talking in games would not lead to a punishment at all to begin with.

Lyte:

1st off, thank you so much for posting and responding even while you're out of the office. I understand more how the system works, but I hope you can understand that according to what the actual chat restriction message says if my behavior improves I will no longer be chat restricted. My behavior improved, but I still have a chat restriction. That doesn't jive. I am not asking you to do something drastic and overhaul the system yada yada. I'm not out for blood. As an individual player, I was hoping that by taking the chat restriction to heart and not interacting in a negative fashion would absolve me ENTIRELY for my punishment. I hope you can see the negative repercussions of a person doing what they should in order to have their status restored only to be served another punishment. Regardless of the shorter duration, while 30 games is an improvement upon 45 games. Not chatting in a negative way is SIGNIFICANTLY more than a 33% improvement. When you do get in to the office I would seriously GREATLY appreciate anything you can do to help me out.

As for feedback in general I have no easy answers. I remember the tribunal having a statistic where it showed how accurate a person was in terms of majority vote. Perhaps, down the road, possibly having a similar feature where players who repeatedly report players who did not commit a breach in the summoner's code have their (credibility rating - insert name here) lowered so the system takes that into account when determining chat restrictions or other punishments.

Anyways, I just seriously don't see how this system has worked FOR ME. I am not criticizing the system in general. As you say it's working for the most part and I completely understand why the shift occurred away from the tribunal. However, in this instance, where I am not communicating negatively within my games I would seriously appreciate some justice here. Thank you very much.


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Somnolent

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Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I'm currently out of the office so I can't look at your specific account; however, there's some misunderstandings to how the system works.

If you were communicating in a toxic manner, you'll get a chat restriction; it's nearly impossible to get your first chat restriction without behaving toxic in some way.

However, what happens afterwards varies a lot from player to player. In each case, after the chat restriction ends for a player, the system reviews all the games you played recently and tries to determine if you've improved your behavior. If your behavior has gotten worse, you will get even more chat restrictions than what you got in the previous set of restrictions. If your behavior has improved dramatically and you are in neutral or positive standing, you will receive no chat restrictions. If you don't talk at all, it's still better than communicating in a toxic way so you may receive a few chat restrictions until you are in better standing. In fact, many players never talk in League of Legends and just use smart pings to communicate in-game and that's perfectly fine.

If the system is unsure about your current standing (because you never talked in your past sets of games, or you showed both positive and negative patterns of behavior in your games), you'll receive a few more chat restrictions so the system can collect more data. In ambiguous or extreme cases, Player Support will also assist the system with manual review of the data to determine next steps; for example, some players who become even more negative after a chat restriction may end up losing their Ranked rewards or receive permanent account bans if Player Support feels like the player is unlikely to ever reform.
tl;dr - we here at riot games think that chat restrictions are tantamount to a shrink.

Legit.


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Eayen

Member

06-26-2014

Hi Lyte. I'm not really sure if this would work in the case of the tribunal, but how about trying to make it how Valve has done it with their overwatch in CS:GO. They only allow trusted players to review reports of hacking. It seems a little bit more reliable than letting everybody pariticpate, because the bad apples could ruin it for everyone.


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CopyCat

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Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eayen View Post
Hi Lyte. I'm not really sure if this would work in the case of the tribunal, but how about trying to make it how Valve has done it with their overwatch in CS:GO. They only allow trusted players to review reports of hacking. It seems a little bit more reliable than letting everybody pariticpate, because the bad apples could ruin it for everyone.
So who would those "trustable players" be for this game?


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Izbiz

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Or, we could be constructive and actually read the posts.

You're missing a critical difference in what I just posted.

Players that have never received any penalties before, and not behaved toxic before, will never have an issue not talking.

Players that have been punished before or behaved toxic before are treated differently by systems. So, if players that have been punished recently for toxic behavior do not chat in games, it's treated as "neutral-negative" and not necessarily positive.
I think the problem people are having is that "not talking" is having a negative impact in the form of more bans. They are being punished again for not doing anything. We don't care 'what the system says', we just know that our behavior improved and we're still being punished. That's the perception. We know that there is not enough data. But not talking = not being toxic and SHOULD = chat ban removed.

Coming from a Summoner who has never been banned in any form.