daily reminder diana needs to be looked at still

First Riot Post
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Kagami

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHeroNamedHawke View Post
You are aware her passive already gives her 20% AS right
kog'maw gives good base AS and passive AS%, diana gets trash base AS and passive AS.


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gypsylord

Champion Designer

06-19-2014
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Hrrmmmm...

I have some thoughts on Diana. Wondering what you guys think. Not saying any of this will actually happen. Just spitballing.

Hypothesis: Diana is NOT an Assassin. She is an "agile fighter" with a vacuum.

My opinion is that if we continue to sell Diana as "The tanky assassin with no outs." She's never going to be balanced. If she's ahead she just crushes you with no recourse and if she's behind she just dies every fight because she can't get out. On top of that she's always going to be fighting with Akali, Fizz, and the like for viability because we've had to nerf her "vacuum" out of the game to make her assassin pattern more manageable.

To me, the most unique thing about Diana is her vacuum (if we were to make it work like one). That's something that she can bring to the team that no one else in her class has. She could be this fighter who's focused, not on one-shotting squishies, but on diving into the enemy team and knocking them all together, setting up for things like Rumble and J4 ults.

Basically I'd want to shift power out of her burst pattern and put it into her Vacuum and sustained damage (passive)

Proposed change list:
Stats - Increase Base AS
P - Greatly increase base damage and AP ratio
Q - Decrease AP ratio
W - Unchanged
E - Turn into an actual vacuum (increase pull distance and radius)
R - Remove Damage (Lowers burst and incentivizes using for movement, no more double tapping a guy 2 feet from you to secure a kill)


Thoughts? Is something like this what you'd want as a Diana player? Is removing the assassination pattern a big no-no? Is putting another vacuum into League super unhealthy?


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A Bad Janna

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Hrrmmmm...

I have some thoughts on Diana. Wondering what you guys think. No guarantee any of this will or will not happen. Just spitballing.

Hypothesis: Diana is NOT an Assassin. She is an "agile fighter" with a vacuum.

My opinion is that if we continue to sell Diana as "The tanky assassin with no outs." She's never going to be balanced. If she's ahead she just crushes you with no recourse and if she's behind she just dies every fight because she can't get out. On top of that she's always going to be fighting with Akali, Fizz, and the like for viability because we've had to nerf her "vacuum" out of the game to make her assassin pattern more manageable.

To me, the most unique thing about Diana is her vacuum (if we were to make it work like one). That's something that she can bring to the team that no one else in her class has. She could be this fighter who's focused, not on one-shotting squishies, but on diving into the enemy team and knocking them all together, setting up for things like Rumble and J4 ults.

Basically I'd want to shift power out of her burst pattern and put it into her Vacuum and sustained damage (passive)

Proposed change list:
Stats - Increase Base AS
P - Greatly increase base damage and AP ratio
Q - Decrease AP ratio
W - Unchanged
E - Turn into an actual vacuum (increase pull distance and radius)
R - Remove Damage (Lowers burst and incentivizes using for movement, no more double tapping a guy 2-feet from you to secure a kill)


Thoughts? Is something like this what you'd want as a Diana player? Is removing the assassination pattern a big no-no? Is putting another vacuum into League super unhealthy?
I want her to be an assassin. Not a fighter


Pls dont remove the dmg from her ult D:


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Krshna

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Hrrmmmm...

I have some thoughts on Diana. Wondering what you guys think. No guarantee any of this will or will not happen. Just spitballing.

Hypothesis: Diana is NOT an Assassin. She is an "agile fighter" with a vacuum.

My opinion is that if we continue to sell Diana as "The tanky assassin with no outs." She's never going to be balanced. If she's ahead she just crushes you with no recourse and if she's behind she just dies every fight because she can't get out. On top of that she's always going to be fighting with Akali, Fizz, and the like for viability because we've had to nerf her "vacuum" out of the game to make her assassin pattern more manageable.

To me, the most unique thing about Diana is her vacuum (if we were to make it work like one). That's something that she can bring to the team that no one else in her class has. She could be this fighter who's focused, not on one-shotting squishies, but on diving into the enemy team and knocking them all together, setting up for things like Rumble and J4 ults.

Basically I'd want to shift power out of her burst pattern and put it into her Vacuum and sustained damage (passive)

Proposed change list:
Stats - Increase Base AS
P - Greatly increase base damage and AP ratio
Q - Decrease AP ratio
W - Unchanged
E - Turn into an actual vacuum (increase pull distance and radius)
R - Remove Damage (Lowers burst and incentivizes using for movement, no more double tapping a guy 2 feet from you to secure a kill)


Thoughts? Is something like this what you'd want as a Diana player? Is removing the assassination pattern a big no-no? Is putting another vacuum into League super unhealthy?
IMO you HAVE to make her a fighter to differentiate her from Akali. If she is an Assassin, then they are directly competing for the same space.


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Arkaia

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Hrrmmmm...
-snip-

Honestly it sounds pretty good for the most part, though maybe not the removing damage from her ult part. Would there be a way to change her ult to have it be something more... ult worthy while keeping her as a fighter instead of an assassin? Maybe a movespeed buff if she lands it, even if it does no damage?


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ScarletRain

Member

06-19-2014

Could you make her W the damageless dash, and her ultimate the aoe 'splodin' shield? It would give her better survivability, and you could make her vacuum more impactful. It makes her kit feel more like a combo that you can mix and match. Do you risk the Q for the W reset for chase, or just jump in, pull and shield? Or do you just jump in and pull, and keep your shield-bomb, just in case?


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AmbientXIII

Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Hrrmmmm...

I have some thoughts on Diana. Wondering what you guys think. Not saying any of this will actually happen. Just spitballing.

Hypothesis: Diana is NOT an Assassin. She is an "agile fighter" with a vacuum.

My opinion is that if we continue to sell Diana as "The tanky assassin with no outs." She's never going to be balanced. If she's ahead she just crushes you with no recourse and if she's behind she just dies every fight because she can't get out. On top of that she's always going to be fighting with Akali, Fizz, and the like for viability because we've had to nerf her "vacuum" out of the game to make her assassin pattern more manageable.

To me, the most unique thing about Diana is her vacuum (if we were to make it work like one). That's something that she can bring to the team that no one else in her class has. She could be this fighter who's focused, not on one-shotting squishies, but on diving into the enemy team and knocking them all together, setting up for things like Rumble and J4 ults.

Basically I'd want to shift power out of her burst pattern and put it into her Vacuum and sustained damage (passive)

Proposed change list:
Stats - Increase Base AS
P - Greatly increase base damage and AP ratio
Q - Decrease AP ratio
W - Unchanged
E - Turn into an actual vacuum (increase pull distance and radius)
R - Remove Damage (Lowers burst and incentivizes using for movement, no more double tapping a guy 2 feet from you to secure a kill)


Thoughts? Is something like this what you'd want as a Diana player? Is removing the assassination pattern a big no-no? Is putting another vacuum into League super unhealthy?
Make her E into her ult, buff it to ult standards. Give it a second cast that pushes all enemies in the area away. Imagine lunar rush in, moonfall[1], zhonyas, AOE wombo combo, moonfall[2]. This gives her a chance to escape without an actual escape.

Reduce the damage of her ult (now E), or change into something else completely.


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Kagami

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Thoughts? Is something like this what you'd want as a Diana player? Is removing the assassination pattern a big no-no? Is putting another vacuum into League super unhealthy?
Sounds ok, but I worry that dropping her Q damage and dropping ult dmg will put her in really bad state to play. I mean removing her ult damage means she only has 3 ratios since e already does zero damage... so reducing one those on top of that seems like it's means almost all her damage would need to be her passive.

I am fine with no assassination pattern, but would that mean she gets some better stats to match up being sustained damage.

Would you be looking to want to her see played Top or Jungle instead of mid lane with this changes?


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
My opinion is that if we continue to sell Diana as "The tanky assassin with no outs." She's never going to be balanced. If she's ahead she just crushes you with no recourse and if she's behind she just dies every fight because she can't get out. On top of that she's always going to be fighting with Akali, Fizz, and the like for viability because we've had to nerf her "vacuum" out of the game to make her assassin pattern more manageable.
Fighter/assassin Diana will always be feast or famine, for sure. I'm not sure that's a dealbreaker, because quite a few fighters are feast or famine. A behind Xin Zhao or Pantheon is an almost entirely pointless object, for example, but they still see regular play.

That said, I don't really think the core appeal of Diana is QRR for near instant death. That's just how you break her. It's similar to how the core appeal of Ahri is darting in and out of fights, staying just out of range while dealing unanswered damage...and then people realized that DFG-R-W was easy and reliable. I think Diana wants to get tons of her damage from her Moonsilver Blade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
To me, the most unique thing about Diana is her vacuum (if we were to make it work like one). That's something that she can bring to the team that no one else in her class has. She could be this fighter who's focused, not on one-shotting squishies, but on diving into the enemy team and knocking them all together, setting up for things like Rumble and J4 ults.
This sounds totally cool. Diana definitely wants to dive into fights and her QRE pattern is quite fun. I would much rather focus on using R for mobility rather than damage, and possibly a 0 damage version of R could consider being able to bounce around the fight to moonlit targets Yasuo style. That may also be broken, but it sounds fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Basically I'd want to shift power out of her burst pattern and put it into her Vacuum and sustained damage (passive)

Proposed change list:
Stats - Increase Base AS
P - Greatly increase base damage and AP ratio
Q - Decrease AP ratio
W - Unchanged
E - Turn into an actual vacuum (increase pull distance and radius)
R - Remove Damage (Lowers burst and incentivizes using for movement, no more double tapping a guy 2-feet from you to secure a kill)


Thoughts? Is something like this what you'd want as a Diana player? Is removing the assassination pattern a big no-no? Is putting another vacuum into League super unhealthy?
My main worry here is that, with no new survivability tools, Diana isn't going to last long enough to get those passive procs off. Fundamentally this kit asks Diana to say in combat with scary targets for a lot longer than her previous kit. Obviously needs testing.

I also worry some about a weaker Q, because Diana leans pretty hard on that for trading and poking in teamfights. My big picture problem with fighters is that there's not enough play and counterplay in the class. Having Q contribute a significant portion of Diana's damage means that it's feasible to juke her in a way that you can't really juke Jax, Renekton, or Shyvana. Possibly this means you'd want to look at changing Diana Q mechanics when targeted at someone in melee range, as was done with Olaf.


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Lexi BeIIe

Senior Member

06-19-2014

sounds absolutely disgusting....

just revert a couple of her nerfs and increase her movement speed so she isn't so easily ganked or just delete her from the game if u will just keep her in a garbage state.