@Riot, This bait and switch was just Wrong.

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Psyclone Joker

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Senior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I actually want to hop on something here:

The Core Gameplay guys do work with new skins sometimes. But I want to raise two things to your attention to specify how:

1. The team plans its changes in advance. They'll say, "Okay, let's take a look at X champion." "Alright I'm working on it. When the changes are ready, I'll submit them." Sometimes that happens to be the same patch as a skin, sometimes it's a change in isolation. Either way, the patch planning is done by the team itself, not by Hippalus saying, "Yo guys, buff this guy before his legendary comes out."

2. Core Gameplay does playtest the new skins, but they test it for feel, readability, etc. Numerous times, they send the skins BACK, make the skins artists take MORE time on them, DELAY the release, and ultimately suck up resources that "could" be used to make more skins or whatever. The playtests literally cost us money because their goal is releasing skins that work better for you guys in game.
You can only claim these playtests cost you money if you assume your income is constant. I got news for you though, if you guys released nothing but buggy and incomplete skins you would still be losing money from all the people that won't spend money on poor quality skins.


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Hawkefire

Senior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippalus View Post
As a Pantheon main, I agree the changes suck. But even if I beg Morello in the elevator, our team has no say on balance changes, bug fixes, or anything else. And they don't tell us what's coming.

Also, I believe Player Support has been giving refunds in situations where players no longer want the skin because of these changes. There haven't been any announcements because it only affects a few players, but I don't think there's still an open issue there. I'll make sure Bubo knows the latest so he can stop arguing about it
I am glad to hear the people are getting refunds. Thank you Hippalus, this restores some of my faith in Riot.


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Son Of Beldar

Senior Member

05-20-2014

Bottom line.... you bought skin, you received said skin. Changes to the champion are in no way related to what you purchased and hence you (or anyone else) are not entitled to a refund. Deal. With. It.

I bought the skin because I think it's a really cool skin and I have the disposable income available to do so. If he gets nerfed two weeks from now, that has no bearing on why I bought the skin. Heck, I really like the Predator Nidalee skin and regardless of the fact that she's useless outside of leagues where your opponents walk in a straight line, or poke comps, I'll still buy it once I get around to buying Nid. Wouldn't matter if they reduced the hitbox on her spear the next day.

OP, I get what you're saying, and I know some folks agree, but your logic doesn't compute.


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God Karthus NA

Senior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB Vamp13 View Post
wow.

you guys seriously have some major internal issues if this is true. you need to fix your communication.


you guys are not indie. you guys arent a small company, you guys are not limited by resources. saying "balance guys dont communicate with rest of company" is NOT acceptable.
No. The point is that gameplay changes shouldn't be involved with marketing. If that's the case, then us players would be on the short end of the stick. This is also to allow the game balance team to focus on their job instead of being concerned with the economic consequences; likewise, this is to ensure the commerce team to do their thing without taking advantage of future balance decisions.

I have played this game since S1 and I know Riot enough to not not intentionally screw players like that. My guess is that they noticed the bug while working on the skin animations and decided to go ahead and fix it. Stop getting mad over such a trivial issue. If you're upset that you spent a few dollar on a skin whose champion is perceived as being [slightly] nerfed, you should reevaluate your own philosophy before accusing Riot. Sorry that Pantheon is not as broken as he was before. Now deal with it.


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Resets R Us

Senior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by i Need Sponsors View Post
^--This--^
Pretty much what they did to Shaco after they released his Masked Shaco skin. Nerfed him next patch, still very disappointed with that move. I didn't buy DragonSlayer Pantheon but I'm pissed that riot did this to all the people that did.


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Galetraxyn

Junior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylotic View Post
Balance changes occur every single patch. You might as well never buy skins ever again if you only buy skins based on balance changes. If Riot refunds your skin and then buffs Panth very next patch to compensate for the changes would you buy the skin again? If Panth gets nerfed after that would you ask for another refund?
This here, this should be seen.

I mean really, so there's a slight change in the timing. That would've been there anyway skin or not. What I don't understand is why, change or not, you want a refund on a purely aesthetic function (as in, the skin itself doesn't change gameplay, build, kit, etc.) over a gameplay change.

The fact of the matter is, yes, the bug fix or whatever you want to refer to it as is a change to how his ult functions. Whether you main Pantheon or not, the change really is minor. Considering I played him YESTERDAY, and felt no different playing him or using his ult to be specific, all this whining about wanting a refund on A SKIN is ridiculous. His gameplay really hasn't changed much, since WHEN ULTING YOU CAN'T CAST AS IT CHANNELS. You can queue it up still, as I did, but you can't land it while he's falling still. That'd be like launching a rocket from ground level while still not on the ground if it were in real life.

The game does follow some manner of physics after all. So unless by some grace of a deity or supernatural power you can do something from to points of verticality at the same time, I don't see the issue.


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

05-20-2014

Pantheon's ultimate is no more than Destiny/Paranoia at this point, but with even less utility (vision denial/additional vision).

TF and Nocturne pretty much instantly appear at their target with almost no delay, and both have hard CC when they arrive (granted, Noc's isn't instant).

Why does Pantheon even have a channel that long? Remove his opportunity to cancel (TF and Noc don't get this) but let him land on his target in less than 1 second.


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Resets R Us

Senior Member

05-20-2014

Riot you know how long the cast after pantheon lands from his ult bug was around till. I'll give you a hint, look at the date, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMqbzEpJozk, why is it that you guys only bug fix it 2-4 years later?


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Galetraxyn

Junior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by i Need Sponsors View Post
What you are failing to understand is that they changed him before the skin release. They just didn't say anything until 3 days later to give people time to buy the skin.
But the skin would still be available for purchase anyway? Just at full price? There seems to be some notion that because you didn't buy it when it was on sale that it's going to disappear taking your precious "ultimate combo" with it. Maybe instead of exploiting a glitch that isn't even working half the time before this, you just work on your timing like an adult and stop being a little ***t? At this point, the complaint is a matter of skill not pricing or sales.

If you can't land his combo on your own and need to use a shortcut to land a targeted ability after a channel, you shouldn't be playing that champ and *****ing about your shortcut being destroyed. Get better at the damn game and maybe you won't have to whine like a little b***h.


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Galetraxyn

Junior Member

05-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban Nidalee View Post
No. The point is that gameplay changes shouldn't be involved with marketing. If that's the case, then us players would be on the short end of the stick. This is also to allow the game balance team to focus on their job instead of being concerned with the economic consequences; likewise, this is to ensure the commerce team to do their thing without taking advantage of future balance decisions.

I have played this game since S1 and I know Riot enough to not not intentionally screw players like that. My guess is that they noticed the bug while working on the skin animations and decided to go ahead and fix it. Stop getting mad over such a trivial issue. If you're upset that you spent a few dollar on a skin whose champion is perceived as being [slightly] nerfed, you should reevaluate your own philosophy before accusing Riot. Sorry that Pantheon is not as broken as he was before. Now deal with it.
^***This***^