@Riot, its time for the faceless mods to stop.

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Maximum Espurr

Senior Member

05-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightNooblar View Post


Oh that one. Again, as I stated elsewhere in the thread, I'm operating off the assumption your friend who got banned for spiderman, was a repeat junk poster, or was doing it during one of the stints where people make threads just to taunt the mods.

I'd assumed you thought I said that in my four point outline for a better forum. I wasn't talking about perma-banning off topic posters as a first response. I save that for people who didn't get the hint after a 24 hour time out, which wouldn't even happen until after they did it multiple times. And on top of that this would be after we'd have public moderation, so they'd know what they were doing is against the rules.
nope. first offence and a pissy mod.


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BrightNooblar

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Senior Member

05-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaldrohiir View Post
The voting system as a self-moderation method is very very naive. It's obvious it serves mostly as a karma system. If threads are out of place or simply unwanted on the forum altogether, we should be able to flag the thread. Then a mod can swoop by (if a certain flagging threshold is reached) to see what is going on and act accordingly.

If the poster of the thread is banned for the creation, he/she is notified and shown a link to the thread which resulted in the ban.

It's not hard to properly police the forums. Especially if you're an anonymous mod and not an active participant on these forums. Communicate what you do or people will not learn or claim to be unable to change their ways.
I don't think we can be trusted with a flag for removal button. Easiest example would be that every post I've made in this thread has been marked as unhealthy for the forums. We're bad at self moderation, plain and simple. And sure one flag wouldn't be enough to summon a mod, but it just speaks as to the mind set of the average GD user, that any thread about balance is just down vote disagreements, up vote agreements.

Put it right in the thread, leave the thread up, just close it. Only telling the offender is a giant waste of time. Tell everyone what happened and why. Once enough people see 'This is the 5th thread you've made on this topic, I'm closing this thread and removing your ability to make new threads for 48 hours. Feel free to post in an existing thread on the topic' they will start to realize "Oh man, maybe I shouldn't keep making the same thread over and over!". And now you've not only dealt wit the current person, but the user base as a whole sees what happened, and why.

And I'd actually say it is hard to police the forums. I actually think it is currently IMPOSSIBLE. Hence why I want to see higher level requirements for the forums. I think lvl 20 to make threads outside new player forums is a solid base line. Maybe allow posts as early as 15 though. Its just that currently I could get on my smurf, post a folder of LoL hentai. Then I get banned, so i make a new smurf, and 30 minutes later I'm posting a new folder. If I'm not obvious about it, I could likely level the new smurf before the first wave of porn even gets noticed by the mods. This makes moderation impossible, because if I really just wanted to screw around and didn't care about anything else, its not possible to stop me. I can come back faster than you can kick me out unless you're specifically watching for just me, all day long.

So step one for forum reform would be to change some back end mechanics. Then public moderation, once moderation is a viable response to things that don't belong. But as long as people make comments about "It's fine i'll make a new smurf" when they post things, moderation is pointless, because people just don't care.

Edit; I do find the fact that they apparently killed the rammus thread sort of stupid. It was sort of an iconic old school GD thread. One of the few that got really picked up by the community (and the reds) enough to warrant keeping around. Its also something that wouldn't have been as likely to happen if someone had to put their name on the closing.


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Trolosaurus

Senior Member

05-13-2014

I support this thread


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Zaldrohiir

Senior Member

05-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightNooblar View Post
snip.
Fair enough. They ought to remove the self-moderation entirely.

While I understand your smurfing issue, it would hit me pretty badly. I'm from EUW and have a lvl 5 NA account so I gain access to these forums. So that's an unfair and self-centred argument not to, as I'd be punished for acts of other people.

And yeah, as the title states, the faceless mods need a face. I guess Riot are in a limbo here: On the one hand they want the new forum lay-out eventually for the entire forum (I think), so any changes made to thÝs forum is a waste of time. On the other hand... they should really start improving these forums.


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BrightNooblar

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Senior Member

05-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaldrohiir View Post
While I understand your smurfing issue, it would hit me pretty badly. I'm from EUW and have a lvl 5 NA account so I gain access to these forums. So that's an unfair and self-centred argument not to, as I'd be punished for acts of other people.
Grandfather in old accounts then. I don't have an issue with forum smurfs, I see no reason why people shouldn't use a different forum name than in game name. We don't have guilds, we don't have a persistent world, we don't have a market place or anything like that. There are likely many many times more legitimate lvl 5 posters than there are lvl 5 posters who need to recieve moderator action. Its just that at the same time, the ratio of bad posters to regular posters is likely the worst at lvl 5. But I've got no desire to see people from NA or EU to suddenly lose their posting abilities.


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Bad Precedent

Member

05-13-2014

What is your opinion on IP banning people Nooblar? As in just blanket banning every account that an offending forum member is associated with.


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

05-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaM View Post
I was just banned for 3 days, thats my 3rd ban in 2 months.
Three days?

Lucky bastard, I got a week for calling the mods Nazis.

But in all seriousness, it does need to stop. It's my chief complaint with GD.


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Suq Mdiq

Junior Member

05-13-2014

There's moderation on this forum? Could have fooled me. I've lost count of the number of people I've called faggots.


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BrightNooblar

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Senior Member

05-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Precedent View Post
What is your opinion on IP banning people Nooblar? As in just blanket banning every account that an offending forum member is associated with.
Only as a last resort. I think in game banning for forum related offense would be much more offensive. No moderation system is going to be 100% effective, and if someone is going to keep leveling up to 20 just to troll the forums again, you're not dealing with a regular person. You're dealing with someone who is trying to 'teach you a lesson'. And someone like that will just change their IP. I feel like you're more likely to accidentally cross ban a everyone who used a university or library network than you are to actually stop the intended target, at that point.

If this was 5 years ago it might have been a better idea, but with shared internet on the rise, and more and more people realizing how easy it is to change the IP address? Its just not as effective as it used to be.

However if you did raise the post requirement to 20, and you did grandfather in old accounts, I would support an IP wide reversal of the grandfathering in. Which would still suck for the innocent people on accidentally related accounts, but it would remove all pre-existing related smurfs. and the innocent players would only be 15 levels (or a support ticket) away from posting again.


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Tamat

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05-13-2014
1 of 7 Riot Posts

Hey everyone, thank you for all the passion on this subject. I wanted to pop in to talk to you about how we're currently moderating these forums, and how our approach will be changing in the future.

Currently, the moderators we use have strict instructions to only touch the worst of the worst in the official forums. Their purpose is to rid these forums of the content that we don't want living in the forums. Examples of this this is porn, malicious software, keyloggers, spam, racism, posts about Teemo, you get the point. They don't delete posts for the use of profanity, nor will they interrupt heated arguments. Do they mess up and overstep occasionally? Yes. Every once in a while they go ham, and when they do we work with them to prevent it from happening again. Unfortunately there's never been a system that makes it possible to share why we've taken a moderation action with individuals, and developing such a system within our current platform would take an insane amount of time. For this reason, I completely understand why you have strong feelings on this subject.

Our approach for the future will be different, and much more transparent. First, there will be super clear rules that will apply unilaterally to all communities within the new boards. These rules will be easy to find, and require everyone to read them before making their first post. In addition to the rules, we will be working with each community to create guidelines that will help create and maintain a unique culture in each sub-community. These guidelines will help guide moderation decisions, and should be enforced by everyone who uses the boards (via upvoting or downvoting).

We've created some amazing moderation tools that will make moderation a lot more transparent. For every action that we take, there will be notifications to inform those who posted the content with the action taken, and why we took it. We're still a little bit out from fully unveiling that functionality, but there's an active discussion going over at the Community Beta boards that I plan to keep updated as progress happens. If you're interested in this topic, please head over and contribute!