@Riot, I think you guys overnerfed Heimerdinger

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One Week Ago

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Oh hey, it's US Economy.
Welcome back.


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Armageddon

Member

04-09-2014

I think Heim just needs more of a health buff on his turrets, especially scaling to late game.
It's fine to have someway to kill those turrets to gank properly, but when your turrets get one shotted by some not-that-fed range champ or bulky champ late game, it gets frustrating.


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20thCenturyFaux

QA Analyst

04-09-2014
1 of 2 Riot Posts

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ Heimerdinger thread ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

To my mind, any change to Heimer should keep in mind the massive disparity in power by skill and coordination; if the game is either plat+ or a ranked 5s, he sufffers. I feel Heimer's recent competitive play was quite healthy and enriched the games he was in--but I don't want to buy that viability with bronze blood xD

His power disparity has been the subject of a lot of my attention since the rework (before it, too :P ). It seems to come down to a few key factors: respect for the threat level of turrets, having to learn their counterplay, and turret AI being a help for beginners but a hindrance for experts.

I'm quite confident the recent buffs and nerfs moved Heimer in a better direction--better skill expression lategame, more difference between RQ and RW use cases, weakening the 'caught alone but coughed up RQ before dying' play, etc. My current Heimer strat is another period of data-gathering focused on understanding the power disparity, potentially followed by a second berf.

To that end, what factors do you folks think are most impactful at the extremes of skill, both high and otherwise? What about coordination, solo vs 5s?


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

04-09-2014

You shouldn't balance this game at low elo. At all. That is what's hurting this game.


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Smoot

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by trillionaire View Post
it's like playing a shaman in s14
WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH. Woah, woah....

Let's not over-exaggerate here, while I do agree it's easy and frustrating, I think you went a little too overboard.


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King of Bavaria

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Love how people are suddenly heimerdinger mains after about one month.


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20thCenturyFaux

QA Analyst

04-09-2014
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminalVeloc1ty View Post
You shouldn't balance this game at low elo. At all. That is what's hurting this game.
I could simply add power until he felt right, but that approach would leave his balance extremely swingy and unpredictable while hurting the experience for the majority of players. Any short term gains I get from doing that would cost way too much in the long term, imo. I have to keep solving the underlying stuff to responsibly balance Heimer :3


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PresidentSkrooob

Member

04-09-2014

i think they did to is lanning phase is to weak now he can get killed by any assassin i think they need to put him back to the old why but get rid of the healing scale thing and the towers basic shots get a little nerf couse he is to powerless now


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
I could simply add power until he felt right, but that approach would leave his balance extremely swingy and unpredictable while hurting the experience for the majority of players. Any short term gains I get from doing that would cost way too much in the long term, imo. I have to keep solving the underlying stuff to responsibly balance Heimer :3
I just feel as if you guys always fall back on "its too good at high elo" or "it's too good at low elo" and it's aggravating to me.

Master Yi is one of those points. He was meh at diamond level, but stomped on low elo. But the decision was made to nerf him because of low elo, but not even buff him in ways to help him for high elo.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

At least now Master Yi is great across all levels of play because of FF.


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Voluug13

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ Heimerdinger thread ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

To my mind, any change to Heimer should keep in mind the massive disparity in power by skill and coordination; if the game is either plat+ or a ranked 5s, he sufffers. I feel Heimer's recent competitive play was quite healthy and enriched the games he was in--but I don't want to buy that viability with bronze blood xD

His power disparity has been the subject of a lot of my attention since the rework (before it, too :P ). It seems to come down to a few key factors: respect for the threat level of turrets, having to learn their counterplay, and turret AI being a help for beginners but a hindrance for experts.

I'm quite confident the recent buffs and nerfs moved Heimer in a better direction--better skill expression lategame, more difference between RQ and RW use cases, weakening the 'caught alone but coughed up RQ before dying' play, etc. My current Heimer strat is another period of data-gathering focused on understanding the power disparity, potentially followed by a second berf.

To that end, what factors do you folks think are most impactful at the extremes of skill, both high and otherwise? What about coordination, solo vs 5s?
The problem with Heimer's power disparaty is not completly on his kit.

It's the fact that outside of the scenarios that you mentioned, a lot of people are instalocking the exact champions that Heimer hard counters (AKA, hard engage champions like Zed, Akali, Talon, Diana et all) regardless of pick order and expect to instawin at best and an even lane at worse. However, when people just pick anything that Heimer is weak against (AKA, 100% of ranged midlaners) Heimer will lose lane and the game unless there is a massive skill diference in both situations.

This is just my opinion/logic, so it may be wring/biased.


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