Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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Troy242621

Senior Member

04-06-2014

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Originally Posted by Jetrel63 View Post
Every ****ing time i find a champ i enjoy playing they get ****ing gutted or olaf'd. Goddamnit.
I don't think gutting champions like a trout is Guinsoo's style. It appears as though he wants her to be more true to her duelist name. I really can't see him ruining her.

Pardon my bias, though, because he designed several of my favorite champions out there.


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Transient Eons

Senior Member

04-06-2014

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Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
I THINK he referred to it as a rapier.
Rapiers are a bit outdated, but I think they're equivalent to the modern foil. Foil is the lightest and generally the fastest of the three weapons, so she probably should be having a bit of a faster kill potential, unless we're assuming that the other champions are more durable than the average human (which is fair assumption).


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Guinsoo

Game Designer

04-06-2014
10 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient Eons View Post
Rapiers are a bit outdated, but I think they're equivalent to the modern foil. Foil is the lightest and generally the fastest of the three weapons, so she probably should be having a bit of a faster kill potential, unless we're assuming that the other champions are more durable than the average human (which is fair assumption).
This is definitely the case. I've always thought fencing was about maintaining a maximum defense (so you don't die) while looking for the opening to kill the opponent, so that by fighting in this manner if you don't make any mistakes you would never die and would beat any opponent who made a mistake. But it becomes slightly different in the world of League of Legends where a single sword wound will never kill an opponent. I'd imagine that in that world, fencing would be about being able to inflict maximum damage output while minimizing 'great risk' (since both parties can afford to take a couple hits, I suspect you would no longer opt for a 100% defense strategy).


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I AM GOIN HAM

Senior Member

04-06-2014

I'm a fiora mid main and I actually really like the sounds these changes, especially what I can make of riposte, I'm going to miss getting ahead and just ulting until the 20 min surrender, but being behind or even on live can be depressing. she really does need a great disengage.

have you considered crit chance during her ult, or a few auto crits? It would be nice to go out with a bang on her ult. Crit is tough to build on melee auto attackers (even though they would really like to) and it's the best way I can think of to showcase her as a primary auto attacking melee.


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
This is definitely the case. I've always thought fencing was about maintaining a maximum defense (so you don't die) while looking for the opening to kill the opponent, so that by fighting in this manner if you don't make any mistakes you would never die and would beat any opponent who made a mistake. But it becomes slightly different in the world of League of Legends where a single sword wound will never kill an opponent. I'd imagine that in that world, fencing would be about being able to inflict maximum damage output while minimizing 'great risk' (since both parties can afford to take a couple hits, I'd imagine you would no longer opt for a 100% defense strategy).
i have to agree with the poster above me, and i think critical strikes are the best way to reflect the fact that youre exploiting an opening on your target. (aswell as armor pen)

it would be nice, if critical strikes or improved critical strike damage could be worked into a riposte after a successful parry. maybe as part of her passive, putting even more emphasis on riposte as her core ability.

maybe something like successfully parrying an attack gives an automatic critical hit on lunge.


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Transient Eons

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
This is definitely the case. I've always thought fencing was about maintaining a maximum defense (so you don't die) while looking for the opening to kill the opponent, so that by fighting in this manner if you don't make any mistakes you would never die and would beat any opponent who made a mistake. But it becomes slightly different in the world of League of Legends where a single sword wound will never kill an opponent. I'd imagine that in that world, fencing would be about being able to inflict maximum damage output while minimizing 'great risk' (since both parties can afford to take a couple hits, I'd imagine you would no longer opt for a 100% defense strategy).
This sounds fairly accurate (at least in terms of "real" fencing) to me. I really like where you're going with Fiora. I'll have to pick her up when I finally grind enough IP.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
I'd imagine you would no longer opt for a 100% defense strategy
Well for military application you perhaps are aiming to do both-- efficient threat neutralization. This is perhaps why fencing itself hasn't really been particularly applicable to military engagement, even in the days of greater melee prevalence. It may ostensibly be the renaissance version of the League of Legends, you know?

It is a bit odd in League just how eager people are to get hit though. Usually doesn't happen that way, so you have some slight implausibility from the lore perspective. (Probably born of the game mechanic of not having injuries/armor degradation.)

So you may need to figure what techniques the combatants are in-lore using to avoid that, and maybe generally get the sense that the game representation of health may include stamina with the understanding that they may not actually be getting hit so much, and are likely blocking it a bit.

You get the lore element that Garen just cuts through swaths of enemies on an open battlefield, spinning, winning, and avoiding all manner of magic as he goes-- Fiora's lore perhaps does not really give her that kind of capability, you know?

For game mechanics, currently, if she ever wants to build damage, she needs her abilities to have tons of defense or tons of burst. Just how the game works now.

To condense the 'fencing archetype', I'd say perhaps you should go for the feel of 'slow dissection'-- whatever the enemy does, Fiora has something with skillful timing that can mitigate it. She should feel like the 'outplay' character. Defense, mobility, precision damage.


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Dèíty

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Senior Member

04-06-2014

Welcome back Guinsoo, it's good to see you posting again


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Velqor

Senior Member

04-06-2014

@Guinsoo

First of all welcome back. Second, I love the new idea for the ultimate. I think it is a brilliant change to making her feel more thematically relevant and interesting as well as adding a lot more gameplay. A few things I think everyone is super unclear about right now is the passive which I think would work great having something like what Ashe has with critical striking. Also is there any way we could get rid of the AP ratios on her kit and replace those with ad? I feel like riposte/parrying would have nothing magical about them.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessuknow View Post
@Guinsoo I don't know if you'll see this, but I have a simple request: Make Fiora's ult like Riven's, where she gets buffed but also has the ability to use it.
That's definitely a possibility I'm open to. Maybe a Coup de Grace to end the ultimate. Sounds kinda neat. Filed away.
This would be totally wicked! You could keep a little bit of the old Blade Waltz animation where she only hits the opponent twice. (instead of five times) Since you are going to use it after a Lunge or Riposte anyway, it would appear as a three-hit combo. Three swipes is reminiscent of the old "Zorro" Z-slash. It would go a great way to keep a bit the "feel" of the old, while being mostly different as an ability.