Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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XxStrikerBl45txX

Member

04-05-2014

Guinsoo, you said you didn't like Fiora's current passive. What would your perspective be on to change it?


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OvernightSiren View Post
Why would a DUELIST be a jungler? Is she dueling the wolves? And what "honor" is there in jumping from the bushes and attacking an unknowing target? That's not a "duel". >_> I think thematically, moving Fiora out of top lane totally changes the entire "duelist" aspect.
That's an interesting consideration. But I still think mid lane works fine for her; perhaps you're right that jungle isn't where she belongs.

...

And I don't really have any thoughts on jungle Fiora at the moment. I'm really not sure if that's a reasonable expectation or not. It has not yet been tested, and it's definitely not the primary focus/intended role for her.
Well, I am glad that she's being designed for top lane BUT I don't want her to be excluded from jungle at all. None of the fantasy tropes of the jungling champions even hint at doing what they are doing! Maybe Kha'Zix or Rengar (when he gets buffed again)... but Elise? Lee Sin? Pantheon? Why would any of these fantasy champions do the dirty work? Its just because its how the game is played rather than how the story is written. Elise, Lee Sin and Panth were all designed to be strong top laners... it just happens that the qualities a good top laner needs is also needed in the jungle.

I'd be happy for Fiora to be a top lane carry that is excellent at jungling. She, as a character, would hate the summoner for giving her the job. She'd insult him, then she would do her job with an effort of making the other junglers look bad. Killing wild animals is easy to her, they only depend on their ferocity and are entirely predictable in their attack pattern.


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Amarth

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Guinsoo!

I am thrilled for Fiora's rework, I really liked her when she was released (and the art!) and ended up getting her original skin bundle. Not to derail, but any idea whats up with Quinn? Shes also a really cool nimble champ that could also use some love.

Also just wanna say, been playing League since beta and have missed you posting regularly, good to see you back!


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
I like the idea of changing Fiora into an agile duelist, relying on hit and run techniques, but isn't that Yasuo's thing? How are you going to differentiate the two sufficiently so that one won't overshadow the other?

And that ult still looks stupid, especially the bonus armor pen. Can you just stop making abilities that are 'in addition to the actual effect, here are a bunch of free stats!' because those are stupid as all hell.
Eh, I'd prefer it if Yasuo got 10-30% bonus armor pen for his passive and his double crit chance was switched to modified crit damage (based on normal crit chance)+100% crit for his ult, but that's just me.


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Nhan Fiction

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStrikerBl45txX View Post
Guinsoo, you said you didn't like Fiora's current passive. What would your perspective be on to change it?
As much flak that people give Fiora's Duelist innate, it's stronger than people realize (at least in the laning phase.) It actually gives you more HP regen than Dr. Mundo's passive for quite a bit in the early game, believe it or not.

Granted, I think a lot of people just don't realize the purpose behind the passive, which is to come out slightly ahead in damage trades. This is supposed to be represented as Fiora is outlasting her opponent in their "duel."

However, it is a trashy innate beyond the early game, and hence why I am happy to see a different innate.


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ShroudedInLight

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Guinsoo, first off let me say that I love live Fiora but have been saddened by how bad she feels. Because of this, I'm super excited to see her reworked. I won't compare her currently to Viktor because let's be honest he feels AWFUL but Fiora is one of the rather sad S2-S3 champs that are just kind of 'there' without much identity beyond a kit kind of slap-dashed together. I'm really excited to see these champs get looked at as they are some of my favorite champs conceptually, thematically, and lore-wise. These champs kits have a sparkle inside of them of what could be, that one thing that feels good about them, the reason you play them despite their lack of power, and it's nice to see the unnecessary stuff get trimmed away in order for that sparkle to really shine.

I've got a simple question about the future Fiora ult and her kit as a whole that I feel is important because it address a fear of mine. Simply: Will W be considered one spell, or two?

I guess already calling your Parry/Riposte skill W might be a bit silly, and it might not even end up on the final kit in it's current iteration. However, as far as I know two-part spells are coded as separate spells. I imagine it's written something like 'If Fiora successfully parries a spell or ability she can cast riposte for 5 seconds'. Well, naturally this is a skill that would work but overall the ability would have a single Cooldown just like Lee-Sin's spells, right? Two parts, two separate spells with separate costs (even if the second cost was 0), but the main point is that this two spell ability shares a single Cooldown. Do you see what I'm getting at here? No? Well it is 3am, let me spell it out.

The benefit of the Ultimate is having your whole kit available on a low CD, but if her W counts as two spells while only having one cooldown...then Fiora will be only getting half the worth out of her ult whenever she uses her W during Blade Waltz. This would actively discourage players from properly using her Parries and Ripostes during her ultimate for fear of 'wasting' part of it.

So can you perhaps put my fears to rest about Parry/Riposting only costing Fiora one 'Spell Charge' from her Ultimate?


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Coedeed

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Senior Member

04-05-2014

I really don't want Fiora's ult changed.. The whole reason I play her is because her ult is Juggernauts. I understand why you want to change her, sure shes underplayed, but that doesn't mean shes in a bad spot right now. She has one of the highest winrates because the fact the only people that play her, know how to play her.

I really don't like the sound of "disengage." What is that? Quinn E? Taking away her sticking power to make her more like Melee AD? That doesn't make sense to me.


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Omni1

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Senior Member

04-05-2014

I feel like reworks have been very scary. The only reworks I've appreciated since I've started league was the heimer rework and latest eve rework. However, its seems very probable based on these reworks that you either gut champions or make them needlessly op until the eventual gutter nerf.

Why should I expect anything different if fiora is going to get reworked?


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Guinsoo, what's it like working on old champs instead of designing new ones? Is it easier, harder, or just different?


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Sephrinx

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Fencers rely on speed and maneuverability and speed, I feel this passive would capture that aspect of fencing. Granting her movement speed and then a ArPen roid upon maxxing the stacks of Grace.

Passive - Grace

  • Fioras incredible fencing skills allow her to maneuver with impeccable grace, granting her 5/7/10 movement speed on each successful attack, stacking up to 4 times for 5 seconds. Upon the fourth stack, she becomes exhilarated and gains Bonus Armor Penetration equal to the accumulated Move Speed bonus. (20/28/40)

More on maneuverability here. Dashing "to a target" is lame, and faceroll. Needing to aim precisely and time accordingly allow us to seperate the good Fioras from the great Fioras.

Q - Lunge
  • Fiora dashes forwards. If she dashes into an enemy, she strikes them in and around their face with her rapier, and may cast the ability once more within 3 seconds. If she uses the ability and doesn't strike an enemy, there is no second cast and she becomes a sad panda.

One cannot solely rely on their ability to strike an enemy in combat, they must also rely on the ability to not get hit, and time their attacks accordingly. Being able to parry, and then have the option to reengage and follow up on an attack allows for some sick **** to go down.


W - Parry/Riposte
  • Fiora readies her rapier for a counter attack for 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds. If she is hit by an enemy or Big Monster, she gains 15/20/25/30/35% of the damage negated as Attack Damage for 4 seconds and hops back 200 range. After a successful parry, Fiora can follow up with a counter attack, dealing damage and slowing the attackers movement speed by 15/20/25/30/35% for 1.5 seconds.

Training for battle is a mainstay. To be able to strike vital areas and deal additional damage, and also invigorate ones self are key to swordplay.

E - Expertise
  • Passive: Fiora gains 10/15/20/25/30 Bonus Attack Damage, Fiora gains 4/6/8/10/12 Health per hit (Doubled against champions).
  • Active: Fioras next attack will disarm her enemy for 1.5 seconds, causing them to become unable to auto attack. They are still able to cast spells/abilities.

Fiora has always had a rad concept for her ult. I sort of combined the Old one with the 'new design' for the possible upcoming ult. The initial dash, and then following up with further attacks and/or parries.

Ult - Blade Walts
  • Fiora gains an additional 7/14/20% Armor Penetration, dashes to up to 3 targets (The same target can be hit multiple times, dealing depreciated damage) dealing damage and then allows her to cast Lunge and Parry at no cost, up to a total 6 times within 12 seconds.


Just my 2 coins.