Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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Numot

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Honestly, if Guinsoo does this I, along with the rest of the Fiora mains, will being calling for his head on a platter.


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NobSaiboot

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numot View Post
Honestly, if Guinsoo does this I, along with the rest of the Fiora mains, will being calling for his head on a platter.
So you and the four other people that play Fiora.

You won't be missed I'm sorry.


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Wannabe King

Junior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryoshell17 View Post
So you and the four other people that play Fiora.

You won't be missed I'm sorry.
First of all, I love Fiora and shes an awesome champ.

2nd of all, I think this rework looks awesome. Fiora dashing around the map going one enemy after another for a whole teamfight. Wooooo, an assassin that takes skill!

Personally, I think they should make her like a zed, yasuo, jayce combo. Basically if you get the mechanics right, you will own hard.

P.s. Plz don't butcher Fiora like rengar and skarner.


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FantasySniper

Senior Member

04-05-2014

She has no place in the meta right now, otherwise she's still a pretty decent champ, imo.

I really hope they instill some better movement on her, and improve her parrying.
They have got to change her passive, too. Maybe if it was like Xin Zhaos, it would make her role more prevalent.


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BlackAndSilver

Senior Member

04-05-2014

So many kids who have no idea how to play Fiora in here. They really shouldn't talk at all. If people have success with Fiora in Diamond/Challenger, then she DOES have a place in the meta.

Please, leave Fiora alone. Just give her some decent QoL buffs that she deserves.


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BonesMN

Member

04-05-2014

Out of sheer curiosity (because I enjoy fiora, but I'm really not opposed to changes) where is everyone seeing this new ult? Like I keep seeing people post and say they really like it but I have no idea where it is even described? So I don't know what it does haha.


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Guinsoo

Game Designer

04-05-2014
7 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by The1Banana View Post
One question though: Why Riposte -> Thrust (based off of what I saw in the screencap)? Riposte's definition refers to the counter attack, not the block itself. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the ability be Parry -> Riposte?
This is probably an accurate point. Currently I was calling the whole spell Riposte, with two parts, Parry and Thrust. We will definitely work on the names later, not only are the mechanics placeholder but the names too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OvernightSiren View Post
Why would a DUELIST be a jungler? Is she dueling the wolves? And what "honor" is there in jumping from the bushes and attacking an unknowing target? That's not a "duel". >_> I think thematically, moving Fiora out of top lane totally changes the entire "duelist" aspect.
That's an interesting consideration. But I still think mid lane works fine for her; perhaps you're right that jungle isn't where she belongs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OvernightSiren View Post
Also that new ultimate is really boring. Basically "URF Mode Activated". Yay, a steroid ult. Yawn.
I think right now it feels significantly different than a steroid ult. It significantly alters your play pattern and thinking for the duration. See the points below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiora All Night View Post
@Guinsoo

Thank you so much for coming in here to talk to us about this


I understand the ult change is, of course, highly experimental but it has me worried. I've played Fiora since her first free week and scored my first ever penta kill with her (why I changed my account name to this). If you're still hanging around hopefully you can address a couple of my concerns here:

1. The new ult lets her spam no-cost virtually no-cooldown base spells up to 16 times over 9 seconds. I don't see how this wouldn't be OP unless she hit like a toddler when her ult was down...and if it's still on a 120 second cooldown that could be a very painful 120 seconds...

2. Without much to go on, I can see that her ult now does 0 damage (by itself at least), her E at least currently does 0 damage, and her W only does damage conditionally. This would make her Lunge her only real damage spell. I'm okay with her being auto-attack based - I'm play Crit build Fiora now anyway - but is there any plan to make sure Thornmail doesn't become "buy this to be immune to Fiora"?

3. Will Fiora keep her Attack Speed steroid, passive AD, or get any new steroids aside from the bonus armor pen on her new ult? Because having a window of massive attack speed is one of the things that feels awesome to me about Fiora. I think she'd probably be extremely bad if she was heavily auto-attack reliant for damage but didn't have any steroids to help her.

4. Can you share any thoughts on jungle Fiora? I've started playing her there and like it, but she's really mana-hungry since she needs her E to clear with anything resembling passable speed. It doesn't sound like she'll have much on the way of damaging spells to clear with so she might wind up being too painful early to take jungle.


Thanks again for giving us a heads up. Fiora is my favorite champ so I'm highly nervous right now, but I'll try and be cautiously optimistic
About point 1: Originally I was debating how to primarily balance this implementation of Blade Waltz. There are two obvious limiting levers, duration and number of casts. The version of which I posted a screenshot is clearly more duration limited. In this iteration I was counting on the various "drawbacks" / nuances of the abilities to limit the ultimate - e.g. travel times, delays, parry times, etc. In the end with the directions we took for some of the other abilities, it didn't end up having the feel we were looking for, and ended up playing like "mash all your buttons." The more recent version is more moderate 8 second duration, with a limit of 4 / 6 / 8 casts (still needs tons of tuning). Also note that right now Blade Waltz doesn't provide any bonuses to how hard the skills hit, to emphasize mobility and tactics over brute force during the ultimate (obviously when casting that many spells in succession, it's going to be doing a certain amount of brute force work).

You're partially right that an ultimate that uses stronger versions of your basic skills requires a sharp tuning knife to make it feel good with and without. But in this case, I think there are some "under the hood" things that we can do to make the ultimate feel like a thing of its own. For example right now when you activate it, it resets all your cooldowns so you can start your comboing or dancing immediately, you get X number of casts chosen pretty much any way you like, and afterward it puts the cooldowns back where they were. I think this really helps make the ultimate feel like a spell all of its own. Additionally, the more potent the "spell modifications" that Blade Waltz offers, the more it feels like the ultimate is a collection of different spells. I think the W captures that well right now, the E to some degree, and the Q not nearly enough.

She definitely pulls a lot of weight with all her spells. In fact, she's decidedly spell based and mostly weaves autos between them, but still plays a lot like a melee ADC because she can cast so many spells within her windows and (conditionally) deal steady spikes of damage. As far as the actual itemization, that is yet to be determined. Right now, she does have an attack speed steroid elsewhere on her kit (originally it was on the ult, but that doesn't fit for obvious reason), but it's not clear to me yet if that will or should stick. That is one of the balancing levers for her that partially determines if she's more assassin or melee ADC; in an ideal world I'd like her to play exactly like a melee ADC without any basic attack steroids, but that's a lofty goal that's probably not possible. I also don't want her to rely exclusively on her auto attacks like for example Tryndamere, I think it should be somewhere int he middle.

And I don't really have any thoughts on jungle Fiora at the moment. I'm really not sure if that's a reasonable expectation or not. It has not yet been tested, and it's definitely not the primary focus/intended role for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drukyul View Post
One major thing I don't like about the idea of the new ult is how much more beneficial it is to players with low ping. I get that anything mechanically intensive is going to do that somewhat, but I don't think having an ultimate that's balanced at is core around giving West Coasters an advantage is a good idea.
Actually, I think that's more of a consideration/potential problem for 'twitchy, reactive defensive spell' than this ultimate. I mean certainly it applies. But how bad would you say Akali or Jayce is to play with high ping? It's not ideal obviously, but I don't think it makes them unplayable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GnomeDigest View Post
When I read Guinsoo's first post I thought, "So basically they want her to be another Yasuo." And then low and behold he comes out and says it.

So basically we can expect an overloaded kit with absurd mobility, some utility, and lots of damage. Why not give this rework to Scruffy or Soulcrushed instead?
I think there are levers you can tune to allow a character to be very mobile while not being completely out of hand. It's definitely a hard goal, and melee DPS seem to be one of the hardest classes to get right. I certainly would like to try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredblaze01 View Post
just a little suggestion can you make fiora dash work on friendly ally? to take full advantage of a no cooldown also she lost her ultimate which is huge
It's something we've considered; ultimately I don't think it fits the fencing fantasy well so I'd rather try to go other routes to get the mobility we like. But we're not opposed to it if other methods fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptoreyes View Post
Its wonderful your in a job that allows you to "take a year off" for most people once they leave home for work or college that is the last time they will see a long vacation in their lives.
It is. Riot is the bestest


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Cuix

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
I'll leave this here to hopefully stir up some excitement for our favorite rapier wielder.
Oh my god. This looks ****ing awesome. I could see the mana cost going down a bit and the cooldown going up, but already Fiora is seeming WAY more interesting.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Guinsoo I have an extremely realistic two questions:

If Fiora is dashing in and out of combat won't the only champions she works as intended against top laners (as top lane is the last melee lane.) Following that since bruisers tend to squish... squishies you give her 50% bonus armor pen. Except the problem with that was that Yasuo got that and he promptly started to run around the map going completely unchallenged since he countered his counters. Now while Yasuo should likely be losing to bruisers and goes mid lane Fiora will have to beat bruisers and be top lane. How are you going to reconcile the fact that melee ADs tend to beat everything other than bruisers/tanks and now you're giving her the tools to beat that last remaining class?

If Fiora is dashing in and out of combat ... why would she ever dash out of combat of a ranged champion? The game as is is typically 2/5 melee and sometimes even less which just seems weird to have a champion constantly trying to dash out of combat with people she wants to stay in combat with. Unless of course she's bouncing off people 1000 spaces away then in which case alrighty then.

Also bonus question: Do you guys realize that AD itemization still sucks and most top fiora players are going pure AD and using her like a super AD assassin?

As a followup to the first question: Rengar and Yasuo are both bouncy characters that hit you then run away, but they transition in to mighty all-in champions by mid game and no longer play the hit and run game. Fiora however will still have entire abilities dedicated to hit and run at a time when it doesn't work anymore because damage and all-in by mid game invalidates hit and run and rather poke takes the field.


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tastethefeet

Senior Member

04-05-2014

she doesn't need a rework, leave her alone thanks