Guinsoo is working on Fiora

First Riot Post
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Zyra Colonel J

Senior Member

04-04-2014

We love you Guinsoo. Please fill out hearts with your knowledge of game design and balance.


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Samzies

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
I really don't like her current passive but I worry that without it she'd really struggle top lane).
I play her sometimes in normals and i've yet to encounter a situation where i feel like her passive had a meaningful effect on winning a duel or 2v2 skirmish. It's not really impactful later in the game either since she falls into an assassin role and fights end before it can really ramp up and heal her.


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
To be honest I'm not convinced Riven is a perfect top lane example. Right now to me the 'natural' top laners are people like Renekton, Shyvana, etc. I feel like in order to make a melee ADC (ala Yasuo) compete with those types of champions in the top lane, we'd have to make other sacrifices to her core design (e.g. putting life regeneration on her kit, I really don't like her current passive but I worry that without it she'd really struggle top lane).
She'd struggle because she wouldn't be able to tank the damage they do unless you made riposte a monster of a skill. Right now she needs the passive because how would she survive otherwise?

I don't like the passive either because you feel no up front effect from it and when she needs it the most its very under whelming. How ever it does allow her to be able to not be forced back 24/7 in lane.


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KilljoyX

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
A great question. I'm not going to directly answer it, but I'm going to pose a theoretical question.

If one assumes that Lunge is _kind of_ like Blade Waltz's jump around and hit things function, and that Riposte is _kind of_ like Blade Waltz's untargetability, is it hard to envision a scenario where you don't get the current functionality of Blade Waltz if you're allowed to rapidly cast your basic spells? But with options around when each individual jump and spell block comes from, as well as considering how many jumps to use vs spell blocks vs disengages, when, how many auto attacks to weave in, when to focus more DPS vs more survivability vs more mobility, etc.

The goal behind the current ult was to sometimes emulate the behavior of the old one, but make it more timing and decision based, add more options, and add more counterplay for the opponents. I feel like the new ultimate offers far more opportunities than the old one, if one assumes that R/Q emulates the feel of her live Blade Waltz.
W is not kind of like untargetablity. W is practically the butt of every joke. Reposite would need to block on hit effects in addition to also blocking spells to emulate untargetablity.

It's hard for me to envision a reasonable person who could compare reposite to untargetability. If you actually believe that blocking autos without blocking on hits or blocking spells (Stun her during ult, blow the freeking 180 second CD ult with a 2 second fear/stun) then I'll just ignore the rework and stop playing her now.

If she becomes targetable during her ult I honestly don't think I'd enjoy playing her. Untargetablity of her ult is a huge reason I like it. If the changes go through I doubt I'd play her even if she reached pre nerf kassadin tier because just Qing over and over is non dynamic and contains no choices.

"Can I Q to enemy" Yes-> Do so. No -> Can't Q away because Q doesn't do that. Zero choices. W blocks one auto which is basically not an ability.

E is a generic steroid and can be altered easily.
Passive is bad and can be altered.
W is bad and can be altered
Q is good as is, could use the ability to Q to allied units but might make it too good.

R is her signature ability. If blade waltz is gone I honestly don't want to play her. It's that simple. Being untargetable and hitting a bunch of times (I personally love the hydra with her ult) is why I like her.


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Que Pasta

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I thought this thread was about the Rageblade being a viable buy on Fiora.


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BattleBootyRiven

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Cool changes to fiora, I ditched riven and picked up fiora, I like the new ult change. Also changes to her passive? do you have any plans for that?


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Guinsoo

Game Designer

04-04-2014
5 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xohs View Post
Hate to be off topic, but why have you been so quiet for the last year or so? Lots of people really admire you, and the champions you've created. Even your twitter has been cold, so many people thought you were gone.
Truth be told, 6 years of intense video game development got to me and I really needed to take some time to destress. I spent about a year traveling and relaxing and now I'm locked and loaded and ready to pump out some sweet content.


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Elyna

Senior Member

04-04-2014

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Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Snip
Finally. I'm glad her ult is changing. It made no sense in the "dueling" aspect of things.


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Mirage Night

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
To be honest I'm not convinced Riven is a perfect top lane example. Right now to me the 'natural' top laners are people like Renekton, Shyvana, etc. I feel like in order to make a melee ADC (ala Yasuo) compete with those types of champions in the top lane, we'd have to make other sacrifices to her core design (e.g. putting life regeneration on her kit, I really don't like her current passive but I worry that without it she'd really struggle top lane).
Frankly, Riven has been really the ideal agile fighter. As a fighting game style player, I have always gravitated to champions like Riven and Yasou due to there more free flow design. I will also say using Renekton as a cap to hold top lane in check, is a piss poor way of doing things. It frustrates me as a player that we have to have a trinity because game balance has gone so far out of wack it is not even funny. Until her recent nerfs, riven was able to stand toe to toe with the big three, yet now agile fighters are forced mid because you guys can't find a solution.

The problem isn't Riven, it is your game design philosophies.


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Xohs

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Truth be told, 6 years of intense video game development got to me and I really needed to take some time to destress. I spent about a year traveling and relaxing and now I'm locked and loaded and ready to pump out some sweet content.
I'm honestly really glad you answered that request Guinsoo, thank you heartily.

I can sleep easy at night understanding you needed a break, I look forward to all your future projects. If a similar situation ever comes up again, I'm sure the community will understand and enjoy what you have provided regardless.