Guinsoo is working on Fiora

First Riot Post
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KilljoyX

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Hi guys. I'd just like to weigh in on what some of the Fiora goals are. The main problems we see with Fiora's current kit are that thematically, she doesn't deliver on the fantasy of being a skilled duelist/fencer, and mechanically, her game presence / play pattern / role doesn't line up with being a skilled duelist/fencer.

As far as the duelist fantasy goes, at least when I think of Fiora, I expect her to be extremely mobile but not just going in, she needs to be good at dancing in, out of, around and about combat. She should be about finding weaknesses in the opponent's play and finding the proper occasion to go on the attack. She shouldn't be about running in and bursting enemies down, she should be poking them down over time.

Mechanically speaking, I'd expect a duelist type champion to be mechanically intense. I expect opportunities to use my abilities at optimal times to counter out the enemy's champion. I want to have a lot to keep track of, but with clear success cases when I do well.

At the end of the day, live Fiora is a ball of stats with some untargetability thrown in; she pushes her buttons pretty much as fast as she can without a second thought, and she's also extremely snowballey. In short, she's bland with no cool opportunities to exchange gameplay between her and her lane opponent.

Some of the current goals including switching Fiora from an assassin to a melee DPS, and moving her lane from top to mid/jungle, and adding tons of 'outplay' functionality on her kit, as well as more mobility especially in terms of being able to disengage and re-engage at optimal times.

I can't share too much of exactly what the plans are for her kit, as I'm sure it's going to change tons during development, but I'll leave this here to hopefully stir up some excitement for our favorite rapier wielder. Also bear in mind this is an early, experimental Blade Waltz, and could certainly change drastically between now and remake launch time.

I also understand it's hard to understand exactly what this sample Blade Waltz does, given the lack of context on her basic spells... but hopefully your imaginations run wild
So there is no way she could keep her current ultimate? It's sort of the reason I want to play her. I know mentioning other games isn't necessarily great but omnislash is one of my favorite abilities of all times. As such Fiora's ult is one of my favorite abilities of all time.

Her current ult is my favorite part of her. The QWEPassive I agree are all stat blocks. Her ultimate feels strategic and has a lot of choices.

It has a long CD. Will using it save me? Get me a kill? If I don't will it be 3 minutes before I can contribute again?

It's good AOE/Gapclose. Do I need to initiate and soften the opposing team or go super hard on the AD?

In duels do I start off with it or treat it like tryn's ultimate? Do I use it to juke a hard stun?

It's in a really good spot. Reworking her E/W/Passive Is something I'd love to see. Her Q is actually fairly well designed for her.

I enjoy playing fiora somewhat as is but mostly because I adore blade waltz. Changing blade waltz to what you have posted would make me want to refund her because that's the only reason I wanted to play her in the first place.


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OverpoweredSoap

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I just hope they don't scrap Guinsoo's rework and pass it on like they did with Old Karma.

Guinsoo's awesome! He'll definitely get going to make Fiora a good pick.


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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverpoweredSoap View Post
I just hope they don't scrap Guinsoo's rework and pass it on like they did with Old Karma.

Guinsoo's awesome! He'll go definitely going to make Fiora a good pick.
woh your avatar is seksi


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XmyHeart

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Hi guys. I'd just like to weigh in on what some of the Fiora goals are. The main problems we see with Fiora's current kit are that thematically, she doesn't deliver on the fantasy of being a skilled duelist/fencer, and mechanically, her game presence / play pattern / role doesn't line up with being a skilled duelist/fencer.

As far as the duelist fantasy goes, at least when I think of Fiora, I expect her to be extremely mobile but not just going in, she needs to be good at dancing in, out of, around and about combat. She should be about finding weaknesses in the opponent's play and finding the proper occasion to go on the attack. She shouldn't be about running in and bursting enemies down, she should be poking them down over time.

Mechanically speaking, I'd expect a duelist type champion to be mechanically intense. I expect opportunities to use my abilities at optimal times to counter out the enemy's champion. I want to have a lot to keep track of, but with clear success cases when I do well.

At the end of the day, live Fiora is a ball of stats with some untargetability thrown in; she pushes her buttons pretty much as fast as she can without a second thought, and she's also extremely snowballey. In short, she's bland with no cool opportunities to exchange gameplay between her and her lane opponent.

Some of the current goals including switching Fiora from an assassin to a melee DPS, and moving her lane from top to mid/jungle, and adding tons of 'outplay' functionality on her kit, as well as more mobility especially in terms of being able to disengage and re-engage at optimal times.

I can't share too much of exactly what the plans are for her kit, as I'm sure it's going to change tons during development, but I'll leave this here to hopefully stir up some excitement for our favorite rapier wielder. Also bear in mind this is an early, experimental Blade Waltz, and could certainly change drastically between now and remake launch time.

I also understand it's hard to understand exactly what this sample Blade Waltz does, given the lack of context on her basic spells... but hopefully your imaginations run wild
This sounds awesome and so does that ult.


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Reepca

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Hi guys. I'd just like to weigh in on what some of the Fiora goals are. The main problems we see with Fiora's current kit are that thematically, she doesn't deliver on the fantasy of being a skilled duelist/fencer, and mechanically, her game presence / play pattern / role doesn't line up with being a skilled duelist/fencer.

As far as the duelist fantasy goes, at least when I think of Fiora, I expect her to be extremely mobile but not just going in, she needs to be good at dancing in, out of, around and about combat. She should be about finding weaknesses in the opponent's play and finding the proper occasion to go on the attack. She shouldn't be about running in and bursting enemies down, she should be poking them down over time.

Mechanically speaking, I'd expect a duelist type champion to be mechanically intense. I expect opportunities to use my abilities at optimal times to counter out the enemy's champion. I want to have a lot to keep track of, but with clear success cases when I do well.

At the end of the day, live Fiora is a ball of stats with some untargetability thrown in; she pushes her buttons pretty much as fast as she can without a second thought, and she's also extremely snowballey. In short, she's bland with no cool opportunities to exchange gameplay between her and her lane opponent.

Some of the current goals including switching Fiora from an assassin to a melee DPS, and moving her lane from top to mid/jungle, and adding tons of 'outplay' functionality on her kit, as well as more mobility especially in terms of being able to disengage and re-engage at optimal times.

I can't share too much of exactly what the plans are for her kit, as I'm sure it's going to change tons during development, but I'll leave this here to hopefully stir up some excitement for our favorite rapier wielder. Also bear in mind this is an early, experimental Blade Waltz, and could certainly change drastically between now and remake launch time.

I also understand it's hard to understand exactly what this sample Blade Waltz does, given the lack of context on her basic spells... but hopefully your imaginations run wild

I'm gonna be honest about this one...

This looks freaking amazing. There is so much potential in this... like... CLG levels of potential in what i'm seeing.


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Monsieur Bane

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Wait, did I just see a Guinsoo post that wasn't from, like, 2012?

Is this real life?


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Guinsoo

Game Designer

04-04-2014
2 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KilljoyX View Post
So there is no way she could keep her current ultimate? It's sort of the reason I want to play her. I know mentioning other games isn't necessarily great but omnislash is one of my favorite abilities of all times. As such Fiora's ult is one of my favorite abilities of all time.

Her current ult is my favorite part of her. The QWEPassive I agree are all stat blocks. Her ultimate feels strategic and has a lot of choices.

It has a long CD. Will using it save me? Get me a kill? If I don't will it be 3 minutes before I can contribute again?

It's good AOE/Gapclose. Do I need to initiate and soften the opposing team or go super hard on the AD?

In duels do I start off with it or treat it like tryn's ultimate? Do I use it to juke a hard stun?

It's in a really good spot. Reworking her E/W/Passive Is something I'd love to see. Her Q is actually fairly well designed for her.

I enjoy playing fiora somewhat as is but mostly because I adore blade waltz. Changing blade waltz to what you have posted would make me want to refund her because that's the only reason I wanted to play her in the first place.
A great question. I'm not going to directly answer it, but I'm going to pose a theoretical question.

If one assumes that Lunge is _kind of_ like Blade Waltz's jump around and hit things function, and that Riposte is _kind of_ like Blade Waltz's untargetability, is it hard to envision a scenario where you don't get the current functionality of Blade Waltz if you're allowed to rapidly cast your basic spells? But with options around when each individual jump and spell block comes from, as well as considering how many jumps to use vs spell blocks vs disengages, when, how many auto attacks to weave in, when to focus more DPS vs more survivability vs more mobility, etc.

The goal behind the current ult was to sometimes emulate the behavior of the old one, but make it more timing and decision based, add more options, and add more counterplay for the opponents. I feel like the new ultimate offers far more opportunities than the old one, if one assumes that R/Q emulates the feel of her live Blade Waltz.


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Teemo is Life

Senior Member

04-04-2014

screw you guinsoo for not replying to my post


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SillyPuttyMcG

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Fiora doesn't really need a full rework IMO, just some QOL buffs would be nice.


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DeathByWaffle

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
A great question. I'm not going to directly answer it, but I'm going to pose a theoretical question.

If one assumes that Lunge is _kind of_ like Blade Waltz's jump around and hit things function, and that Riposte is _kind of_ like Blade Waltz's untargetability, is it hard to envision a scenario where you don't get the current functionality of Blade Waltz if you're allowed to rapidly cast your basic spells? But with options around when each individual jump and spell block comes from, as well as considering how many jumps to use vs spell blocks vs disengages, when, how many auto attacks to weave in, when to focus more DPS vs more survivability vs more mobility, etc.
I prefer your new Blade Waltz a lot more, actually. It feels so much more engaging than just hitting a button and then going invulnerable. It will leave you a lot more vulnerable to counterattacks, so it'll be tough to use though because melee carries just have that problem.

Also, if you do go through with your new Blade Waltz, it might be a good idea to change the name. Maybe it's just me, but it feels like there's a disconnect thematically between the name of the spell and what it actually does. But that could just be me.