The Gragas Followup Thread

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Mokkun

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I'm curious, considering the amount of basically QoL and bug fixes Rengar and Gragas need, should we be expecting a fairly quick patch to address minor issues like these, or is it going to be held off, and bundled into a bigger patch?


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Juggernaut N

Senior Member

04-04-2014

successful rework is successful


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

04-04-2014
8 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokkun View Post
I'm curious, considering the amount of basically QoL and bug fixes Rengar and Gragas need, should we be expecting a fairly quick patch to address minor issues like these, or is it going to be held off, and bundled into a bigger patch?
Unfortunately I can't answer this as I do not make the calls and I do not wish to put undue pressure on the folks that do. Sorry


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Dunking

Junior Member

04-04-2014

I've only played a few games with new Gragas but I feel that his W is now very awkward to use.

In top lane if you use your W the enemy can just back off and wait for it to expire, even with the 1 second extension the same would happen. If you channel it while walking up many top laners can simply interrupt it or walk away. Same thing for team fights.

Once you cast it it's hard to hit anybody unless they're CC'd/going into your team. Should we be casting W before engages or after we body slam in?

Something that I really miss is being able to channel W while body slamming. Any specific reason this was removed? You're still able to throw barrels while body slamming so it seems unusual to me. This also removes the moonwalk bodyslams which are just there for style points but amusing all the same.

Edit: For reference I've been using a tanky top lane set up with haunting guise and mostly tank items. With double dorans rings I experienced zero mana problems so I think the removal of mana refund on his W is fine. You barely use mana anymore with the mana cost reductions and since I wasn't maxing Q I didn't spam it for poke/waveclear. Max E>W>Q


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Mestergrog

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahff Bengarr View Post
I don't see any reason why the mana restore was removed from his W--that was literally THE first and foremost use of it.

Could you please explain this change?
Old W had a 25 second cooldown and restored 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 mana. On an 8 to 6 cooldown spell, restoring that much mana per cast would be too much. Reducing the mana restored wouldn't work either; I wouldn't want to stop and channel just to get a measly 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 mana back. So reducing his mana costs was the better change to make.


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Zephyreal

Player Support Specialist

04-04-2014
9 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.
I will second Scruffy's thoughts. When I first saw his kit on the community beta thread I immediately thought support Gragas. He now has 3 forms of CC at 6, his knockback on E is either tied or slightly further back than Thresh flay, and his Q slow is pretty heavy if there is any sort of charge up time (which you can set up with combos with his E or even more impressively his R).

His passive is also pretty sweet since he has to go kind of close with his body slam for trades, so that extra heal is nice if he can manage the passive timer well. But also given the fact that the E knocks back and stuns, he pretty safe to begin with if he wants to do an E+Q combo for harass. I'm literally chunking people for 35-40% HP (depending on Q charge) and walking away without a care in the world.

The one downside is that you're not flanking much in laning phase as support Gragas to maximize the displacement on body slam, but again if you can combo a Q through an E (super easy with practice), it should be easy for your lane partner to follow up.


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Sincarnation

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sincarnation View Post
Ok ive got a lot of questions as a PBE tester that I hope you will answer

People on the PBE were asking for these changes for a while, why did u ship the rework knowing those needed to be addressed?
Gragas didn't get a single modification or balance change after the rework launch unless you count his animation fixes. As a gragas "main" I and many others wrote long list of things about gragas that were likely going to be problematic, but no red commented (no discussion) and there ware never any changes. Did u guys opt to just push it as a "we need to get normal gragas off of live NOW" sort of thing or was it planned beforehand not to get many PBE changes?
I made a post there hoping that the Gragas rework wouldnt be in the 4.5 patch because i dont feel like he received even a notable fraction of the attention the kassadin rework did, and it comes across when I play him.
Still kinda hoping you could answer these since you were looking at the thread not too long ago
Solcrushed/any red Pls?


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Zelink

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I dont think the gragas changes are that bad compared to rengar, thing is though these patches can take weeks up to even a month.

Rengar atm is not worth playing since he doesnt do anything great in particular, sorry to divert from the thread a bit but as someone who has been playing lol close to 5 years now this is one change to a champ im so sad to see.

He was really fun to play, alot of threads have suggested in rengar gaining a global shout or some display like nocturnes ult to tell if he is nearby as well as fixing his q bugs and putting back the AS back on it.


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Greenwheel

Senior Member

04-04-2014

meh as long as he is out of mid lane i'm ok with it
please do the same thing to ziggs and get him out of mid lololol

buff viktor


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

04-04-2014
10 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sincarnation View Post
Still kinda hoping you could answer these since you were looking at the thread not too long ago
Solcrushed/any red Pls?
Oh sorry, the short answer is that I suck.

The long answer was that his W and E were undergoing significant iteration to their logic during the PBE and the problems that you see now are not the ones that existed during the bulk of the PBE.

Doesn't mean we could have done better, but didn't want you to feel that your feedback was being ignored. Some of the bugs are actually things I introduced trying to respond to PBE feedback