Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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XnasoX

Member

04-04-2014

So what happens to some of us who only played rango as a glass cannon assassin..

I gave him a few tries in the jungle he's alright there but his clear time got nerfed.. and the ganks are more obvious after 6 and gives time to react

tried him at top built him like jax with 1-2 damage items and then some tank items

didn't do enough damage and died to fast

q doesn't work on towers either so split pushing is also out of the question

and I don't see assassin rengar working considering you only get ferocity after you leave stealth.


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TheNoodleNinja

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlumlordThanatos View Post
I get quite a lot, actually.

Rengar's kit had everything in it. To demonstrate, I'll give you a brief rundown of his ups-and-downs since his release.

Release Rengar: Pretty broken, but no one really knew how to play him yet. Received QoL buffs.

After that, he started to catch on, and people realized he could insta-delete anyone squishy. Nerfs followed.

People then realized that you could build Rengar tanky and become an utterly unstoppable splitpusher with an instant stealth. More nerfs.

Now this was about the time people discovered the triple-Q bug. Suddenly, Rengar could insta-delete squishies again. Received more nerfs as a band-aid solution so that they could work out the bug, and they never really did. This is when Rengar was disabled in the LCS, otherwise he would be pick-or-ban.

And now the rework is here, trying to preserve as much of his flawed, overloaded kit as they could. They couldn't just scrap it and start again, because that would make the fanboys angry. So, this is what you get instead: a champion who probably isn't even really that bad, but people are *****ing because "they changed it, now it sucks" without even really giving it a real chance.

I'm gonna come back to this thread and gloat when the pros pick Rengar back up.

Ok so I agree with most of what you're saying. That being said, the only real way to play Rengar now is a bruiser. He's listed as an assassin, and he used to be an assassin.

Assassins:

-Build damage early game to do high amounts of burst damage very quickly, usually very mobile.
-Might pick up a defensive item late game so that they can kill more people
-Build damage in lane so that they can kill their lane opponent and get more money to build more damage to kill more people more quickly.

Rengar:

-Has to build tanky now just to not feed his lane
-Might be able to pick up a few damage items late game after he has like 3 defensive items to ensure that he wont blow up long enough that he can get his empowered q off
-Isn't really mobile unless you're chasing someone through a warded jungle and constantly have vision on them/ have a bunch of stacks on bonetooth and have your ult up.


He's listed as an assassin and you can't play him that way. They might as well just rework his entire kit so that he at least has a bunch of tools to kill champions like Irelia instead of him being a stealth champ that jumps in, yells at everyone, eats everyones cooldowns and then snares a squishy so that someone with damage can eventually kill them.


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Crabby

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoodleNinja View Post
He's listed as an assassin, so you'd think he'd be able to assassinate people.
Funny, it says the same thing for Eve too. But I guarantee you she does way less damage than Rengar ever will when it comes to scaling up into mid/late game.

Anyways, one thing I'd say is his early game feels a little TOO weak at the moment since he doesn't seem to scale that incredibly hard. Another thing is his Bola Strike feels a bit off, like sometimes it looks like it should have hit when it didn't.

Otherwise I'm going to keep testing around with builds and not be extremely rash, though it is understandable.


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CrazyKracker

Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all,

The Rengar update is live and we're playing and monitoring his performance a ton on our end. Let's use this thread for constructive feedback. Once we have more data we will definitely be adjusting his power levels up or down if he needs it.

-How are the changes playing for you?
-What builds are you using?
-What lanes are you playing him in?
-Finding any bugs?

I've already seen a suggestion that I like: his alert to enemies during the ult only appears if they would be able to see him out of stealth, we're already talking about this a lot internally. This seems like a good way for Rengar to optimize a bit more by taking clever paths on ganks and approaches.

-Scruffy
Basically, to put what is wrong with Rengar, lets go over the changes.
First, Ferocity scaling effect now goes off champion level. This is good, it enhances Ferocity choice and viability.
Second the changes to Q-Savagery. The changes are a net nerf in overall damage. Reducing the overall damage greatly, and removing the attack speed buff makes this skill extremely lackluster. Even with the cooldown reduction, this skill does absymally small amounts of damage. Coupled with the fact that it can no longer crit, Savagery is vastly weaker than before.
Third, the changes to battle roar. Basically favoring resistance gain by hitting multiple champions. Good overall, works well with his gameplay.
Next is bola shot, the damage was kept about the same, but it is now a skillshot. This makes rengars already often painful csing, much worse. He effectively has no harass(besides bush jumping.. which is painfully obvious), and no way to secure the kill of a minion without potentially taking harass damage.
Fourth is R-Thrill of the Hunt. Everything about this change is just bad. First is the lack of movement speed unless moving to enemy champions. This destroys all utility of this skill when not moving directly at an enemy champion. What if you were going around them, or want to use this skill to escape? Not anymore. Secondly is the nerf to the movement speed, well you know how R is only useful for engaging now? Yeah, you are now even slower than before. Lastly is the alert. This DESTROYS all hopes of using this skill for utility. By using this marker they can effectively tell which direction you went is more than one champion is near. In addition this change also makes it so you cant really sneak up and gib a target (not like you could anyways with the Q nerfs) but if you wanted to try, you can't now. The target is basically a big sign to squishies telling them to go close to their tanks.
Lastly is the change to the Bonetooth necklace. This was an old relatively cheap item for rengar that provided you with strong stats AD and armor pen, that scaled decently. This coupled with your Q could land very good damage. Now with this item no longer giving damaging stats, and no longer losing stacks upon death, its really something you just buy and ignore. Doesnt really have any gameplay as much as its just a fusion into his passive now.
I wont bother to mention the Ferocity linked verions of QWE as they are the same as they were previously.

Overall the changes to Rengar are detrimental to his playstyle, and viability. He was known for heavy suprise burst damage, or being an annoying tank. Now, his abilities rely even more on the building of attack damage, tank rengar is much weaker. In addition the fact that bonetooth no longer grants cheap damaging stats, makes tank rengar even worse. Damage rengar is hurt also. His ability to burst someone is essentially gone through changes to the Q, and E now being a skillshot. This is further made worse by the fact that the targets are now warned, and can prepare accordingly for the moderate damage you are going to inflict on them.


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Jolan

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Senior Member

04-04-2014

I don't even want to post my opinion here. This wasn't even changed from when he was released on PBE, I complained about how it ruins Rengar's identity entirely and makes him unfun to play, nothing was changed, absolutely. I feel like there is no point in giving feedback since we've already seen what happened with Skarner - more range on E, 10% more slow, call it a day and that's it. I literally do not expect any sort of fixes to make Rengar decent.

Okay, okay, fine, Maybe I will repeat the feedback that has been given so many times while Rengar was on PBE and it did nothing.

Bugfixes? More like no bug testing. Q doesn't do anything when used while leaping? Isn't that, like, 90% of what you'll cast while leaping? idk. Moving on.

I want to address the 'buffs' Rengar got and how they're not even effective at fixing anything. People will look at W's scaling with enemy champion hit and go ''woah rengar is so tanky''. This is an illusion. Rengar does not often become or easily remain this tanky. Riot, you have access to all sorts of Data. Xin Zhao already exists with a mechanic where hitting more than 1 enemy champ with an AoE move grants more defenses. Can you please look at said data and tell us how often xin zhao gets the defensive bonuses from his ult for more than 2 targets hit and how this makes him tanky? The same should go for rengar since their approach is the same - get in, burst with this ability, and try to focus on a single target. This would tell you that, given how swingy Roar is, saying that it has high potential would mean nothing in reality since statistically rengar wouldn't hit more than 2 champions on average. In which case the bonuses barely beat out those of release Rengar.

Making bola into a skillshot was probably the only good thing of this rework, and is a major buff to Rengar....if he jungles. In lane, Rengar lost a guaranteed source of poke. I mean, don't get me wrong, but resourceless targeted poke is pretty dumb as an ability. We learned that much from URF mode. But rengar's E doesn't even have a low cooldown. Sure, you had guaranteed damage, but it wasn't remotely close to spammable. Now? 10 seconds. Really decent. You still probably get one off at most in those assassination attempts. Except it's now a linear skillshow. Awkward. Can't easily use it in lane since most of the time minions will block them. It's not like you can fish for hits like with Mundo's Cleavers. You'll probably end up using it to farm minions and generate ferocity, unlike before where you just mashed E with smartcast on while you mouseover the enemy and you'd get free poke as soon as they got into cast range. Still, if there are no minions and this spell is 1000 range, going into lane from the jungle makes it so much easier to gank someone. 1100 range at first was a really good length but you chose to lower it for some reason. Maybe ganks were getting too easy since CC was easily applicable?

Regular Q got the short end of the stick. I'm not sure how to put it...There are champs with autoattack enhancers. Let's look at Trundle for example. He has an easy time resetting with Q since he attacks, then you press Q after he hits something with the club and he IMMEDIATELY lunges forward and bites. It could be a moving target, it could be stationary. Point is, he does it regardless of attack speed. Rengar used to do this before, but I believe it was entirely because pressing Q gave him an Attack speed boost on said attack and for several seconds afterwards, so he felt really similar to Trundle. Now, this attack speed boost is gone. Rengar's Q is unreasonably slowed down and does not allow you to use it as an AA reset. Please give it whatever functionality Trundle Q has - +range on Q cast, +AS just for that that attack, a 0.5s 70% slow on attacked target with Q, I don't care. Given the huge AS loss on rengar, thus crippling his regular sustained fighting abilities while attacking a fleeing enemy, having Q be as clunky as this (what others say) is just something that cannot be allowed.

-tl;dr Rengar Q can't AA reset easily, Rengar's W doesn't actually make him as Tanky as you'd expect and E is no longer free harass but becomes Rengar's best ability instead.

I think that's going over Rengar's 3 basic abilities, not empowered versions. Let's have a look at his passive and BTN now.

The passive remains unchanged. Rengar leaps from bush and stealth. Got it. Still the same, still good, still fun. Wait what do you mean BTN's 6 trophy bonus is +125 range on leap from +150? I do not understand the reasons behind this change--oh wait yes I believe I do. Let's look at what BTN received - the ability to not lose trophies on death! And you can start with it! And it functions just like whichever trinket you picked! ...In fact, if Rengar starts with it 100% of the time and it's cool, why the hell did you not just...make it his passive!? Come on, let's be honest. Rengar's passive is currently that he leaps on targets from bushes&stealth, as well as his abilities using ferocity. If you are going to make the change so rengar has BNT 100% of the time, you might as well just shove it into his passive.

Let me explain myself a little bit better here. Trinkets have, essentially, 3 levels. It upgrades once at level 9 and once after you pay 475 gold. However, for Rengar, this is not true. It automatically upgrades at 6 and 12 trophies. However, given past BTN functionality, this trinket would lose its upgrades if said trophies were lost. It's bad design if everyone else had their trinket functionality on demand with only Rengar's being dependent on Trophies, making it possible to lose your upgrade. On one hand, this is understandable from a designer's viewpoint. On the other hand, choosing BTN over regular trinkets makes it a Risk-vs-reward thing, which further makes Rengar binary in the sense of him gaining usefulness if enough kills and being behind if not enough. But there are plenty more solutions to that outside of making trophies permanent and impossible to lose.

One option is just keeping standard trinket upgrade patterns, but that risks making it too text-overloaded. The other is, dun dun dun, making BTN into Rengar's passive. It's not like there isn't plenty of space there. Hear me out - Bonetooth Necklace is something unique to Rengar. It is not mentioned in his lore or his abilities or anything. It just exists as his own personal binary trophy-scaling item. I want this to be tied to him closer. What better than to make it his passive? It becomes closer to the character, and you still have to Balance Rengar with BTN's existence in mind. That leaves the trinket slot open back to whatever you want to pick, without the burden of BTN in there.

But let's jump back to why Rengar lost some bonuses on BTN, like that leap range. You see, BTN no longer competes for item slots. That frees you up to purchase whatever you want and still keep BTN's functionality. Therefore, bonuses like AD and CDR and APen do not need to exist on BTN. What BTN does get to keep is utility. The 25 MS? No longer necessary, let's just give him a low Boots of Mobility +25 out of combat, but also in bushes, so it's sort of like Nidalee. The Leap Range is too long for something this easy to obtain, so we lower it. And then the higher end rewards are an effective DOUBLING of Rengar's stealth duration, as well as higher movement speed during ult. Wait. Rengar already gets MS out of combat, aka when he's using his ult. Also, boot upgrades like Alacrity for +20 exist. Furthermore, Boots of Mobility exist, and are common purchases on early game assassin junglers (like Rengar whose BTN is fueled by kills and assists). He's getting an overload of MS that he can't effectively use due to the soft cap of MS at 420 where total MS is multiplied by 80%. He's not really gaining all of that MS from ulting, or other purchases. Probably not something you want on his max stack reward.

-tl;dr BTN shouldn't have to be forced into trinket slot because that causes even more of a power imbalance when trying to balance the power of BTN since you have to work around Trinket's effects. Also, BTN not being an item frees up an item slot for Rengar and now you have to balance 6 item Rengar with guaranteed BTN instead of 6 item rengar OR 5 item rengar with BTN. ALSO ALSO BTN bonuses at different stacks need to be re-evaluated due to them being 100% Guaranteed Power in rengar's kit since Trophies aren't lost on death.

That leaves Ult and Empowered abilities.

Oh...Rengar ultimate....you are probably the best and the worst skill all at once. Let's look at what it previously did. Rengar's ultimate was used for two things - Ult, get ferocity and then jump out of nowhere and assassinate a poor squishy with Rengar's insane burst AD ratios. Or you splitpush with Rengar's actually decent tower taking ability, and then ult so you get mobility and stealth to evade possible engagement from the enemy, as well as gaining free detection should the area be unwarded. Of course, both of these are sufficiently unfun. But Riot found workarounds. In the first case, Rengar gets revealed at different points during his leap. Player solution? Just don't leap from stealth, walk up to them AND BURST THEM. How about making it so Ult generates ferocity after you come out of stealth? Well good job, I say. Rengar can no longer burst. He can also no longer assassinate anyone. This is of course, exaggeration. Rengar's ultimate now gives him MS after ulting so he should be able to stick to someone. Of course, CCing Rengar actually works now, since he can't retaliate. The only way he can respond to a slow or a CC where the enemy flees, is it Rengar's Bola magically got Empowered by the 5 ferocity that takes a total of /5/ seconds to generate. Then he has to land a fast 1000 range skillshot and the 1.75s Snare + Ult MS are plenty for him to catch up. I actually like this pattern, but I do believe that Rengar generates Ferocity far too slow for him to do anything with his ult.

Before, you started at 5 ferocity with a free empowered ability, then used it and generated 3 more with your 3 ability uses. That left Rengar with 3 ferocity and waiting on CDs to pop 2 more. After the ult change, Rengar starts from 0 to 5 ferocity,, which is really swingy and depends on preparation, then rengar gains 3 so he may-or-may-not use an empowered ability, leaving him from 0 to 3 ferocity at most. However, he now gains 5 periodically, so after 2 seconds in, Rengar can have from 2 to 5 ferocity! That's enough to use /another/ empowered ability. This is huge! Net positive much? Rengar can now engage and frontload his lowered burst over 2 seconds then gain enough points for another empowered ability after 2-5 seconds. This can't even compare to before. His pre-remake abilities were on 6,11 and 8s CDs respectively. Even with CDR, you can't get close to what this new ult offers you.

Of course, this ult cannot remain balanced for what it offers. You would think that making it so rengar cannot assassinate and 100-0 squishies from stealth while giving him post-ult strength would be an equal trade, well you are wrong. As of right now, Rengar roars while ulting, thus warning enemies at a long range extremely loudly that HELLO I AM RENGAR AND IM GOING TO BE STEALTHED. This isn't comparable to Nocturne, whose voice is heard globally /and/ he shrouds the whole map. Probably the way to make this ability less obvious is to make the roar global, although I'm not sure you'd even want to have a roar happen, given how Rengar is revealed from stealth mid-leap.

The stealth fade time from 1.25s to 3s is what Rengar needed to stop his safe splitpushing. He's caught much easier and has to use it properly if he wants to escape. If you want to punish him even more, keep the long cooldown from before. But making this ability far too full of counterplay by warning enemies constantly of Rengar's location as well as changing him so he has no burst threat? That may be a bit too much.

-tl;dr Ult has less toxic interaction by giving Ferocity after coming out of stealth but the reveals are probably too much.

Now, empowered abilities. Where do I start?

How about entirely? Okay, so Rengar's empowered abilities now scale with his level meaning any one of them is equally strong as the others, no matter what Rengar's levelling first - Q, W or E. This, sadly, means that Rengar just gets mediocre since none of his empowered abilities actually excel. As in, you don't get an excellent empowered Q because of your investment of 3 Q points at level 6, but you also don't get really poor empowered W because you only have 1 point in W. This change, while good, has had an effect on Rengar's double-tapping action while laning. Double Q for burst damage as well as a fantastic AS steroid to let you continue trading? Gone. Double W for insane waveclear with AP investment? Gone. Double E for I don't know why would you do this there's no point?!?? Also gone.

Empowered Q....oh this ability is just great. It's pretty much old empowered Q with less damage, less AS, and you also get +10% AD for a bit while it lasts. This ability is a trap. Given the nerfs to base Q, Rengar doesn't want to actually trade without having access to empowered Q because that is the only way to get your Attack speed back to allow you to win trades. You also get some sort of free AD for several seconds that really helps your autoattacks and E (since it scales with AD). There is just no choice here. You either have access to empQ and you can trade, or you don't have access to empQ and you can't trade. It makes Rengar even more binary because of this. Before, you could fight with Q's base damage and free AS afterwards, using empQ if you wanted to increase said damage and AS to make you win trades harder. Now, you just don't fight because regular Q is too weak for that, so you must wait out on empQ. A poor choice.

Empowered W got the heal gutted, but you can't really say you didn't expect that. A free flat heal on a resource-less ability? That shouldn't exist in the first place. But it really hurt Rengar's sustainability. Given how his base regen also got gutted, and he is not Riven (who can just shield off damage in trades) then I don't understand why it had to be made for Rengar's heal to not only be flat, scale off champion level, be empowered W only, but also then be halved and allowed it to increase based on Rengar's missing hp? This isn't even a choice for which empowered ability you want to use due to the fact it does almost nothing for Rengar with the amount of nerfs it has received.

Empowered E is probably the best of the bunch. It's the base bola, except tripled so it now snares for 1.75s on hit, on top of the 2.5s slow. I can't really say much other than 'this is a great ability except I need to use Rengar's empowered Q to fight 1v1 so I would never use this outside of helping my team by snaring a key target'

-tl;dr EmpQ is necessary for trades (shouldnt be), EmpW got gutted, EmpE is useful but you want EmpQ so you never use it.


Now then, after looking at all of this, we can see that the changes entirely destroy Rengar's burst assassination, remove his ability to have sustained trades in lane, remove his tower-fighting power, nerf his splitpushing escapes by removing MS during stealth, remove his sudden appearance from ulting by both warning champion that he stealths as well as revealing him early, remove his binary curve where empowered abilities are useless without points in the regular ones, remove his lane sustain from empW's heal BUT on the positive side, they also remove his 5-slot issues with BTN, make his jungle ganks better with the E changes, give him a guaranteed BTN that will never lose stacks, and give him free 10% AD during empowered Q, as well as 1s longer and possibly stronger defenses when using W.

This is what pisses players off because they can no longer burst assassinate, which was bad, but they can't really do any sort of assassination as it is. This makes Rengar worse than most assassins you would choose. Furthermore, laning with Rengar is significantly weaker because without access to his level 2 cheese OR any sort of AS in Q, the cat cannot effectively trade with the most picked top laners. Moreover, he cannot even best them as pushing down turrets since his strength in that was entirely gutted, thus removing any sort of fall-back mechanism for Rengar to use in case he loses lane and has to make up for it by helping his team. His participation in kills is not rewarded with anything but utility which he cannot exercise properly since what that utility works on (aka splitpushing or surprise ganks) was significantly altered to make it nigh-impossible.

It's probably too late for proposing changes, but here I go anyway.

1) Give Q back the tower-hitting functionality as well as giving base Q back it's AS boost. To prevent the previous burst assassin, turn the extra physical damage into a bleed like Talon Q. This way, Rengar cannot instantly jump and assassinate someone, but his damage over 5 seconds is better because he can still keep on attacking with an AS boost after the initial hit. You can even make it so attacking a Bleeding target either refreshes or amplifies the Bleed. It would fit with Rengar thematically because cats lacerate and make you bleed. This bleed damage would not apply to towers, which would allow him to use Q on towers for Ferocity and AS, but not by causing free extra damage to the tower.

2) If Q becomes a bleed, keep Empowered Q's burst, since Rengar would need some sort of way to hit hard outside of sustained autos and bleed. Move the 10% AD away and give him something to promote fighting, like Grievous Wounds. That way Rengar can choose to make his Bleed stick via reduced regen from EmpQ's hit

3) Give the 10% AD to EmpW. Rengar already goes ham with this defensive ability, so if he chooses to heal because he is low on HP (Heal boosted by % missing HP), he probably would want to hit back hard as well, so the 10% AD would amplify his lifesteal-boosted autoattacks (because who doesn't buy lifesteal on Rengar? Even Machete gives life on hit) Maybe even make it so Rengar's empW is like Olaf's W, empowered healing effects on Rengar for X seconds after empowered W, making his lifesteal/on-hit more potent.

4) Probably nerf Bola's slow. Rengar may or may not get far too sticky. An 80% slow for 2.5s is goodness gracious, way too scary. Also possibly Rooting? Even scarier.

5) Speaking of the Bola, it's kind of slow for a 1000 range skillshot. Missing an empowered bola punishes Rengar really hard since he uses up all 5 ferocity stacks for it. Can it gain Elise's Cocoon's buff and also give vision while flying and during the 2.5s it slows an enemy? Either/or, or maybe even both.

6) Already mentioned in the BTN section, but make BTN into Rengar's passive and change how the stack system works. I'm sure people would prefer better bonuses there, at the cost of being able to lose stacks.

That's my feed back I guess. It probably won't go in since Rengar is already changed on live, but I can at least try.


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Chilled Nova

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowMixWarrior View Post
So Riot I am literally looking at Rengar mega thread specifically when this kit was put on the pbe.

What I found was.... Well I'll let them speak.
[/B]
because it's a f*kin scruffy rework
he honestly probably gives 0 f*cks that he killed Rengar


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

04-04-2014

So, thoughts as a Rengar player. I mostly play Dominion but ahve tried him out on SR too. I also rageposted when the rework went up, sorry about that :x My opinion is a bit more nuanced right now. Here are my thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
-How are the changes playing for you?
They feel weaker. Rengar prepatch, despite being too snowbally and bursty, felt like he had the ability to get his damage in which was reasonably valuable. New rengar depends on multiple ferocity procs in fights. As a result, he feels like he's a brick you throw at the enemy to try and kill them, and any of the actual bricky damage dealers will crush him into the ground without pausing. I never really wanted to be tanky, I wanted to compete with people like Yasuo or Master Yi for damage output and have some sort of hard-survivability mechanic like they have to function


Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
-What builds are you using?
I've been messing around with something in the realm of Bork/Brutalizer core then picking up a Sunfire and an mr item, finishing Black Cleaver and a final situational item. I'm not sure if this is a bad build or not, but it seems decent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
-What lanes are you playing him in?
I like him in the jungle. His kit just seems too neutered to run toplane and midlane doesn't have the brush to jump from.


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IS14453219c71b37cd51fea

Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
-How are the changes playing for you?
-What builds are you using?
-What lanes are you playing him in?
-Finding any bugs?
Are f*cking sh*tting me ? Are you blind ?

DONT YOU SEE THIS POST: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...1#post46259058 WITH DOZENS OF PAGES WITH NEGATIVE FEEDBACK IN 90 % CASES ?

And dont tell me that " they are not constructive " because they ARE.

Quote:
I'm pretty interested in the builds that people try out on him. In playtest a lot of our experienced Rengar players thought Blade of the Ruined King was really strong on him. I think some people will make the classic Trinity/Sunfire/Spirit Visage build still work though.
The guy you were answering where FOOLING you and made another thread to brag about how STUPID you are to answer him because he NEVER EVER PLAYED RENGAR. He humiliated you and exposed how biased your quotes are.

Quote:
I might get called out for selectively quoting here, but I'd really like to see the landscape as one of feedback (even if passionate feedback) rather than direct character statements and raw "HE'S TERRIBLE AT THIS" statements. I get that you want to vent, but in a place where someone wants to have a conversation, that's not possible if someone enters the room and says "EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG, I BELIEVE X IS TRUE AND THEREFORE UNLESS YOU FIX IT I WON'T TALK TO YOU."
Shut the f*ck up and show respect to your consumer because WE ARE PAYING YOUR SALARY.
Your work is SH!T , the consumer is ANGRY so TONE DOWN.

Quote:
In playtests, Rengar was typically building an in-between (with a few players trying out assassin builds), and he was still obliterating ADCs. The 1000 range is an indicator but doesn't actually reveal him, so Rengar should go steamrolling into the fight when he wants to engage, rather than sitting right beside the ADC for a few seconds before blowing them up. Engaging should be a commitment, not just a kitty sitting on the spot for a while.

AND THERE WE SEE HOW USELESS YOUR " tests " ARE AND HOW CLUELESS YOU ARE ABOUT THE CHAMP.
" few players trying out assassin builds " is that a goddamn joke ???

WHAT PLAYER are you talking about ? random clueless low elo scrubs trying the champ for the fun and using the advised build ?
Or people that put passion and HUNDREADs of games into this champ ?

I HAVE MY LITTLE IDEA.

F*ckin " in-between" builds ???

THIS IS AN ASSASSIN WAKE THE F*CK UP.

Quote:
He gets bonus movespeed in stealth, a leap out of stealth and a speed boost once he breaks stealth. All of these things speak to Rengar needing to be at least slightly crafty in approaching his engages rather than push R, right click squishy and blow them up.
DO YOU EVEN PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME ?

Do you know what's the meta ?

The +15 % movespead post-ult is nothing but a joke.

The meta is MOBILITY and TANKYNESS.

ANY half-brained adc would just have to STICK TO HIS ****IN TRESH OR LEONA and flash / dash / cc / root / wathever as soon as rengar pop and HE IS DONE AND CAN'T DO ****.

THIS is the reason why he needed to ONESHOT because 1 sec more and the guy is GONE and you are cced and kited to DEATH.

15 movespeed doesnt change ANYTHING.

Quote:
This doesn't mean everything you demand will happen, but it does mean that your concerns or pains will be heard and either should be solved by a different play approach, are actual strategic tradeoffs and design health implementations, or are genuine pain points that should be addressed by design.

everything we demand will happen? who the F*CK do you think you are talking to ? to your childrens ? to your employees ? Do you think that a company has the right to say " everything you demand will not happen " ?
What if all the salary you " deserve " will not get paid ?
F*cking monkey SHOW RESPECT.

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What about double Q feels bad specifically? The damage? The time between attacks?
Q should still be resetting Rengars AA. If this isn't the case we will definitely fix it. I'll double check that Q still resets the attack but I'm pretty sure it does.
Half a years of " " " test " " " in the PBE and NOBODY has been able to see that ? This is another point that correlates with what i said upon:

1) Your test are clueless
2) pbe feedbacks are made by people that don't know sh!t about the champ or
3) you ignore the players that REALLY play the champ ( which is obvious, otherwise this rework would have never happened )
4) you are clueless

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The thought process here was that, with the goal of allowing opponents to react to Rengar's engage, we wanted to pursue alternate methods of increasing their reaction window without having to take it all out of his damage. The warning is meant to be a very short "Rengar is coming" moment but still allow Rengar to engage on the target.
with tons of mobility / dash / zonia / thornail / randium / flash / cc / supports abilities that are out there YES, THE F*CKIN ADC COULD REACT.

Now what if rengar is 15/ 0 already ?

Well this is another thing but ANY F*CKING ASSASSIN THAT IS FED LITTERALY ONESHOT SQUICHIES.
AKALI ? LEBLANC ? FIZZ ?

AND to be 15/0 you gotta master your champ and spend HUNDREADS of hours on him.

CLUELESS LOW ELO SQUISHIES CAN'T DO SH!T AGAINST A FED ASSASSIN ? BREAKIN' F*CKIN' NEWS !

Quote:
We have definitely shifted the time-to-kill window for Rengar's assassinations more into the fighter end of the spectrum (closer to Jax than Zed, for example). He's not going to kill someone in 1-2 seconds, yes, but his damage over 4-5 seconds should be comparable to or better than the previous version while also having stronger tank stats and better stickiness.
closer to Jax than Zed

What the f*ck are you talking about ???

REALLY ?

IF YOU DON'T LIKE ASSASSIN'S WHY DO YOU BOTHER WITH 6 % POPULARITY 1,6 % BANRATE 47 % WINRATE RENGAR ?

GO WORK ON OTHER ASSASSIN'S THAT ARE MORE PLAYED AND OP.

Rengar.Is.An.Assassin.

****in' Hell closer to JAX ?

YOU MEAN BELOW ? F*CKIN BELOW !

HAVE YOU SEEN A JAX VS RENGO IN LANE PRE NERF ? AND NOW ITS EVEN WORSE !!!







THERE IS NOTHING TO FIX BECAUSE the SITUATION IS NOT FIXABLE.

THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO ADMIT THAT YOUR WORK IS A FAILURE , AND


R E V E R T


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Frizalen

Senior Member

04-04-2014

His damage is fine, you guys just need to do something about his ultimate. The whole reason to play Rengar was because he could ult past wards and get a solid gank in. Right now you're better off not ulting at all when you gank 'cause they just get alerted and walk away. Which is just all the way messed up and why nobody can pretend like he's a hunter anymore.

What successful hunter cat do you know yells and screams alerting everyone within a five mile radius know of his/her presence before he/she pounces on his prey?

If you really don't want him to do too much burst damage out of stealth make him get a certain amounts of spells and abilities before he can use some burst damage. Something like volibear but with however many aa and spells you think it takes for Rengar to earn a kill and also have it not be an execute. That way you can mess with the number of hits and the amount of burst until you get the right combo.


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XnasoX

Member

04-04-2014

well

tank rengar will be back that's for sure