Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

04-03-2014
9 of 21 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blyted View Post
I have one serious question:

What was the reasoning behind the warning when he ults?

It seems kind of random to be honest.

I would like to know more about the thought process behind that decision.
The thought process here was that, with the goal of allowing opponents to react to Rengar's engage, we wanted to pursue alternate methods of increasing their reaction window without having to take it all out of his damage. The warning is meant to be a very short "Rengar is coming" moment but still allow Rengar to engage on the target.


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Rengarbage

Junior Member

04-03-2014

Hello,
After reading through many comments, ranging from raging to pure insults, I realized that the community is poorly conveying their message, which I will attempt to restate here.
Rengar is no longer viable as an assassin, and he cannot compete in the top lane. Additionally, the changes have also, arguably, weakened his jungle.
I will briefly discuss why I truly believe each of the aforementioned:

-Rengar relied heavily on his Q damage to assassinate, now, saying this with experience, a fed Rengar has trouble assassinating a lower level, squishy support due to the massive damage decrease (Don't even consider non-support champions, or equal level champions).

-As far as the top lane goes, his level 2 "cheese" as some call it does about 1/4 of the other top laner's health on average, which is returned to Rengar multi-fold upon his journey back into the bushes. Other than being unable to have 'bursty' trades in his favor, he also completely lacks a consistent/reliable poke (since the e is now a skill shot). Due to the previous reasons, he can't successfully win a lane other than out farm, which isn't, in my opinion, as assassin's idea of winning lane.

-Concerning the jungle, I believe he is already second-tier or less, however, the attack speed loss on his q makes camps harder to clear (excluding the damage reduction).

Additionally, I would like to add some additonal opinions:
I can understand why his tower killing could be viewed as too strong (although some would argue that it's not since it's an integral part of the champion). Regardless, I believe that changing his q to not work against towers is a valid nerf if you believe his pushing is too strong. However, I believe that by disallowing his q to damage towers, and reducing his damage drastically, the pushing nerf was doubly-applied.
Also, having tried many different builds on my separate accounts after the patch, I have come to believe that Rengar may be viable as a tank, but cannot be viable as an assassin or high damage source of any given team.

Lastly, I would like to make some suggestions of how to go about the current Rengar:
-First, restore his Q damage to what it was before the changes.
-Second, reduce the stun time on his E, elsewise with the Q restored, the 1.75 second stun would be arguably OP.
-Thirdly, if you are to prevent his Q damage from applying to towers, let his Q act as an auto-reset (such as many champions have already).
-Fourthly, (optional) reconsider the E as a skill shot, as having a point click poke is very useful when behind or against "counters."

In all honesty, I appreciate the attempt to adapt Rengar into a new, intriguing champion. But, he has lost what made him spectacular and, as I have gathered from many players, is no longer fun to play. I would prefer if all the changes were reverted, but I must admit a bias, as I do play Rengar.

Thank you for considering the communities opinion.


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Narasimha

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
map awareness, warding, and positioning 2 hard
You would literally have to ward every 20 feet, because Shaco has the same exact issues.

If he's ahead, he rips apart anything thats not tanky.
If he's behind, he'll go after your towers with glee.
Considering he has traps, a blink + invis, and his ult, its an effort in futility to catch Shaco with one person. Send more people after him, and a smart team will counterpush.


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
there's nothing in league with no counterplay
True.
Dont go alone when is not warded.
Dont overextend
Dont run to the bushes

And that its


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Dagartru

Senior Member

04-03-2014

You kill every champ you touch dude, i swear to god Rengar and Kha'Zix were my 2 favorite rival-relationships' in the game and you killed Rengar STAY AWAY FROM KHA'ZIX F***KING STAY AWAY.


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CamoClad

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral Nightmare View Post
Well, fair enough, the uneducated hate is something you're right on. But negative feedback, while harsh, is still justified.
Would you say Timothy Olyphant levels of Justified? LOL, sorry had to do and provide a bit of humor to this super serious conversation :-)


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Genow

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The thought process here was that, with the goal of allowing opponents to react to Rengar's engage, we wanted to pursue alternate methods of increasing their reaction window without having to take it all out of his damage. The warning is meant to be a very short "Rengar is coming" moment but still allow Rengar to engage on the target.

...But you did take out most of his burst.

There's no reason for the warning if he's going to do damage over long periods


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The thought process here was that, with the goal of allowing opponents to react to Rengar's engage, we wanted to pursue alternate methods of increasing their reaction window without having to take it all out of his damage. The warning is meant to be a very short "Rengar is coming" moment but still allow Rengar to engage on the target.
Umh, and for example what the players can do, when malphite jump with his ultimate?


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exec3

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The thought process here was that, with the goal of allowing opponents to react to Rengar's engage, we wanted to pursue alternate methods of increasing their reaction window without having to take it all out of his damage. The warning is meant to be a very short "Rengar is coming" moment but still allow Rengar to engage on the target.
I thought the warning was tried and then scrapped early on because it didn't feel good. What happened?


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FloralVibes

Senior Member

04-03-2014

I quite like the rework, I think that the range on e was a much needed buff.
In the one game I played so far, I went a slightly tanky build before damage, he's better as a bruiser since this patch.
I went solo bot with him on urf. I think that the indicator that allies gain when he's in the area in stealth was a bad move, if he's meant to be played as more of an assassin. I also felt that the movement speed buff after stealth was a bit of a bad idea, It was better that he gets it when he's in stealth.