The Gragas Followup Thread

First Riot Post
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Charzin

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodimin View Post
Basically, the rework is absolute garbage.

1. Literally nobody is going to wait around for 30 seconds for his Q to power up and get hit by a full damage Q. You're not going to stun anyone inside of it, either, so don't even go there.

2. All aspects of his W are awful: you spend a second channeling so your next autoattack powers up, but when the enemy sees you channeling, they're just going to walk away, and since the empowered W only lasts a second or two, you're never going to hit anyone with it, especially during lane.

Then there's the fact that you guys want him to be a brawler with autoattacks, but his damage mitigation is a lot worse and shorter duration now, so that's confusing, too.

3. His body slam is the only decent aspect of his new setup, but since all of his other abilities are garbage now, I don't want to use it for anything but running away.

4. Thanks for not ruining his ult like you ruined his other 3 abilities, I guess.
I have no intention of being a brown-noser to riot, but did you ever imagine that you can't play him the way you did before? They intentionally stated they wanted him to be an in-your-face punching mage, not a long range barrel sniper. They wanted to remove his ability to pop a max range Q for 1/4 of your health instantly.

Try playing him differently, then come back with those results. I'm trying him in the jungle right now.


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Hoodimin

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charzin View Post
I have no intention of being a brown-noser to riot, but did you ever imagine that you can't play him the way you did before? They intentionally stated they wanted him to be an in-your-face punching mage, not a long range barrel sniper. They wanted to remove his ability to pop a max range Q for 1/4 of your health instantly.

Try playing him differently, then come back with those results. I'm trying him in the jungle right now.
I don't really have any desire to do that. You might as well take a marksman and change them into a melee just because you thought it might suit them better. Rather just pick up a different champion than keep playing Gragas, even though I've loved him since he came out.


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Xohs

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charzin View Post
Try playing him differently, then come back with those results. I'm trying him in the jungle right now.
Oi, Jungle main here, played Gragas primarily in the Jungle before, and I played him for the same reason everyone else did with a twist. Gragas basically was an AP Bruiser levels 1-11, and then transitioned into a long-range high damage Mage.

I completely understand if they want him to go in a different direction, but the fact is, keeping Q like it is and adding a bunch of close range elements does not make sense. The kit does not mesh. He may be functional as a tank, but if that's not what any of the pre-rework Gragas players were expecting, is it a good choice?


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Kiyoish

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Would it be possible to get a shorter channel on W?

I haven't gotten to play him yet, but the channel to be able to use W seems a little silly seeing how it is an auto modifier to have a long channel.


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Cosmic Warper

Junior Member

04-03-2014

It seems to me like his W and E synergize together, and his Q and ultimate synergize together well, but all four of his abilities don't mesh well.
1. His ultimate displacement feels more of a mid ranged caster's ultimate to reposition a team instead of allowing gragas to get into their faces quicker.
2. His Q doesn't mesh with his W and E at all since it's semi-long ranged poke that has really high queue-up time ( the initial roll, and the wait time for full damage and slow).
3. The W channel and the short duration of both his empowered auto attack and damage reduction seem to just inhibit any close ranged play if gragas is getting ready to slam into an opponent since any enemy that sees him channel his W is going to stay as far away from gragas until both of his active buffs wear off.
4. His cooldowns don't fit his new playstyle. I agree with the cooldown of W and his ultimate ( Albeit i don't agree with the change to his W uptime and damage reduction window at all), but the cooldown of E is dastardly long. If gragas is going to brawl people in close proximity, he shouldn't be forced to build an athene's or morellonomicon to satisfy his cooldown needs as they are counter-intuitive to his kit changes. I believe that Gragas' body slam should retain the 50% cooldown reduction if it hits an enemy, however it should only work on neutral monsters and champions, to ensure that he can't consistently push a wave up with just his body slam.

Overall gragas is in a strange state; while retaining some characteristics of his AP poke/nuke self, his kit shifted not to revolve around a brawler playstyle, but more focused toward it instead, making his kit feel separated into two paths.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

04-03-2014
5 of 11 Riot Posts

Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.


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Hoodimin

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.
Because that's what all of us long-time Gragas players always loved about him! Heck, I've been clamoring for the ability to support as Gragas for the last two years! Now I can finally do it! Thanks, Rito!


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T1gerBl00d27

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Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.
Interesting POV. Care to elaborate?


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Tarshana

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Senior Member

04-03-2014

When I first played this game I was told Gragas is a tank so I saved up to buy him. I would get Sheen and then build Atmogs (don't judge me!) and go all in and help secure a kill or two before helping my team push towers down. Then I saw someone play him as a mage and I was like "wtf is this?" and have been quietly waiting to put Gragas back into being a tank.. He's a GIANT drinking Scotsman and being Irish, I have mad respect for the skunners and while I realize Warmog is no longer part of the game... I'm excited to have him as a more viable tank

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.
Why the heck do you think we need more supports? Are you just trying to shove more people into the role because of queue times? There's over 20 champs viable for supporting with various weaknesses and strengths, we don't need more. The role itself is boring to people, adding more champs isn't going to make it less boring. (Not for me, mind you, I enjoy supporting). If you want to buff a support tank, look into Alistar =P

Edit 2: I don't mean to be rude, I promise. I have a flatmate who's a gaming dev so I understand the stresses you folks have, I really do. I was just taken surprise by that comment >.<


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Rockman

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvan Krislov View Post
I've seen many a Full-Tank Gragas carry a game with Sorc Boots, Haunting Guise, and full tank (Iceborn, Sunfire, Spirit Visage) after that. He has a LOT of utility now, but can't really blow up people. I like this.
Iceborne/Sunfire isn't full tank, it's bruiser.