Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

First Riot Post
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Vongeo

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Another bang up rework scruffy. Well received and you really listened to the player base.


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Valenten

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccelerationZx View Post
We DID give feedback. Please check the 200 page Rengar rework thread.
I have a feeling that you just wanted all the positives of rengar and none of the counter play.


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jimmy57

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valenten View Post
There is negative feedback that isnt constructive and then negative feedback that is constructive. Saying oh its bad just revert it isnt constructive. Saying oh its bad and here is why is constructive. If you arent giving constructive feedback dont expect them to give you a response.
Because all of the changes were incompetently done.

Constructive criticism is given in the hope that one accepts and attempts to modify behavior or situations with respect to the criticism. This also assumes a situation is fixable.

This one is not - the rengar rework was an inept change of a champion and, if the skarner rework is your benchmark, nothing will come of constructive criticism aside from one-two minor tweaks that will offer no usability improvements.

Asking for constructive criticism after you just base jumped for your first time is silly - you ask before you try it.

Aside-
The community saw what happened with Skarner - they will no longer take riot's word anymore. This is called credibility - Riot has lost its'


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Someone made a good point. Lyte, your going to do more harm than good with this sugar coating nonsense.


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Level 18 Rengar

Senior Member

04-03-2014

His Normal Q animation feels way to slow and the Attack speed buff removal hurt.
His lane phase feels so weak right now since he can't win much trades anymore.
I feel like the W and E changes were awsome and the Fact that ferocity effects are based on champion level adds so much more options on what ability to use
His ult feels really weird not gaining ferocity but I do like the huge move speed bonus after ult.

Build 1-Black Cleaver-Ionian boots-Tiamat-Last Wisper-Finish Ravenous-Youmuss-Spirit Visage or Randuins
Build 2-Tiamat-Sunfire-Spirit Visage-Finish Ravenous-Trinity-Last Wisper-Ionian Boots

-Level 18 Rengar


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Dementation

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal Loli View Post
DO you really think its a good idea to only respond to the praising comment?
And this is exactly what would happen when they change the forums into Reddit style/why they want the Reddit style.


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Riot Pwyff

Player Communications

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04-03-2014
4 of 21 Riot Posts

As a quick side-note - if you feel unheard in your feedback that's something we should manage in terms of expectations and discussion. Skarner - regardless if he's in a better place from a game health perspective - sounds like a communications issue with managing and directing the conversation. Alternatively, if the disagreement is crazy weird - some feel Skarner is X and we fundamentally can't have him be X - then that's a DELIGHTFUL CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracareful View Post
This community is toxic
I might get called out for selectively quoting here, but I'd really like to see the landscape as one of feedback (even if passionate feedback) rather than direct character statements and raw "HE'S TERRIBLE AT THIS" statements. I get that you want to vent, but in a place where someone wants to have a conversation, that's not possible if someone enters the room and says "EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG, I BELIEVE X IS TRUE AND THEREFORE UNLESS YOU FIX IT I WON'T TALK TO YOU."

The response to that is to say "WELL HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO US SO WE WON'T LISTEN TO HIM," but we really need to reset this kind of thing. Maybe we didn't communicate certain concepts better and maybe some didn't actually enter the conversation in a mature way. That's all I'm saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flurby View Post
Well first of all - Q bug when leaping. Fix this please.
Using double Q's feels really bad.
Not being able to hit structures just feels bad.
Delay between double cast from Ferocity ability and normal ability feels super clunky.
1000 range feels like way too much as a detection radius.

With the changes I feel as though he will be forced into tanky/bruiser builds. Assassin Rengar's burst is what drew me to the champion initially and building tanky for sustained battles doesn't cut the mustard for me. If I liked that kind of play style I would go spam Renekton and Trundle.

The explanation in the patch notes about being binary is something I fully agree with, but Rengar just doesn't feel good anymore.

I'll post more as I think of more.
In playtests, Rengar was typically building an in-between (with a few players trying out assassin builds), and he was still obliterating ADCs. The 1000 range is an indicator but doesn't actually reveal him, so Rengar should go steamrolling into the fight when he wants to engage, rather than sitting right beside the ADC for a few seconds before blowing them up. Engaging should be a commitment, not just a kitty sitting on the spot for a while.

The Q not working on towers feeling bad might be a truth but do we agree that Rengar's split pushing was absolutely obnoxious without tradeoffs? If not, maybe that's where the conversation should start.


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Reygekan

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Hey Scruffy,

This post might get downvoted to hell, but whatever. Chin up, don't let the hate get to you. I'm an avid Skarner player, he was my most played in s2, and one of my favorites now post rework, and I think the changes you made there were good, and I'm sure the changes here were just as good (I have yet to see a Rengar on this patch.) Chin up, and thanks for being brave enough to tackle the hard projects.


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Riot Pwyff

Player Communications

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04-03-2014
5 of 21 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy57 View Post
Because all of the changes were incompetently done.

Constructive criticism is given in the hope that one accepts and attempts to modify behavior or situations with respect to the criticism. This also assumes a situation is fixable.
So let's talk about that perceived "incompetency" in a champion change - what do you perceive Rengar to need and what do you perceive this rework to have killed.

If you say super safe split pushing, you're going to make me sad.


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Super Mundo

Senior Member

04-03-2014

rIOT DIDN'T THINK HIS SPLITPUSHIING WAS A PROBLEM WHEN THEY RELEASED HIM. WHY IS IT ONE NOW?