Summoner's Rift Map Design feedback

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Mbmbmb98

Senior Member

04-01-2014

One idea I think would be cool is if Dragon and Baron were right in the middle of the river, with some small walls surrounding them, maybe the pit is the intersection of the river and both jungles in an x type pattern? just a small idea though.


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daft inquisitor

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
There really is no need to bump this thread, I am keeping an eye on it. It is a little tricky to comment on since I cannot really explain the design impact of the line-of-sight changes you guys are talking about. Apart from being a little bit of a better simulation what are the advantages to letting you see over the cliffs. How do you see this improving gameplay?

I just need to understand the issue a bit more before I can talk to design about it.
I think they bumped to keep it on the front page so other people could see it, not necessarily for your benefit directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbmbmb98 View Post
One idea I think would be cool is if Dragon and Baron were right in the middle of the river, with some small walls surrounding them, maybe the pit is the intersection of the river and both jungles in an x type pattern? just a small idea though.
Hah, this just brought to my mind the idea of Barn and Dragon fighting. Like, if you somehow lured Dragon to the Baron pit, they would fight each other. How great would it be for Dragon to get a Baron Steal and run around with Purple Buff terrorizing both teams?


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Kiech Bepho

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
It is a little tricky to comment on since I cannot really explain the design impact of the line-of-sight changes you guys are talking about. Apart from being a little bit of a better simulation what are the advantages to letting you see over the cliffs. How do you see this improving gameplay?

I just need to understand the issue a bit more before I can talk to design about it.
Immersion is the primary reason for it. If you don't want line-of-sight, then change the cliffs to walls and remove the illusion of high ground. Other MOBA and RTS games that are similar in play style have had this for decades, and its quite frankly confusing to new players that high-ground mechanics do not exist in LOL.

The advantage of adding high-ground mechanics is that it would provide options that are not available now. Currently only bushes provide sight advantage, this change would make the cliffs tactically important locations for spotting players passing by and allowing you to snipe/pounce them. Players at the top of a ramp, like the entrance to the river, would grant vision of opponents and allow you to choose to engage or avoid before being spotted. If you extended this to the bases, players at the top of the stairs would be able to see opponents approaching first. Its very defense-oriented.

It would be a change on par with what you did with the bushes for S4. It will make an impact on warding and player positioning.


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Noctes setcoN

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by daft inquisitor View Post
I think they bumped to keep it on the front page so other people could see it, not necessarily for your benefit directly.
Indeed, I only bumped it to get it to the top of the first page so it had a higher chance of being seen, and so more people could post their suggestions and discuss things.


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
There really is no need to bump this thread, I am keeping an eye on it. It is a little tricky to comment on since I cannot really explain the design impact of the line-of-sight changes you guys are talking about. Apart from being a little bit of a better simulation what are the advantages to letting you see over the cliffs. How do you see this improving gameplay?

I just need to understand the issue a bit more before I can talk to design about it.
it would probably be because that's the way vision is treated in starcraft, warcraft, and various other rts. I know it was jarring for me personally when I came to sr and the thing that looked like a cliff was really just more of a wall. Probably wouldn't work in SR because of the gameplay implications though (1 way sight would make even walking through the river a terror).


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Dewm

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Don't think this has been posted in this thread yet.. But I'd really be in favor of a more horizontal map design if they were to "redo" summoners rift.

I didn't make this, but here it is.

http://i.imgur.com/dcKzgfs.jpg


It fixes the camera issue with league, (no I don't play locked screen) but even on unlocked I feel like purple bot lane has a disadvantage. And I love the fact that TT and HA are horizontal.

And it addresses some of the balance issues with dragon/baron pits.


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RiotForScience

Senior Environment Artist

04-02-2014
4 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewm View Post
Don't think this has been posted in this thread yet.. But I'd really be in favor of a more horizontal map design if they were to "redo" summoners rift.

I didn't make this, but here it is.

http://i.imgur.com/dcKzgfs.jpg


It fixes the camera issue with league, (no I don't play locked screen) but even on unlocked I feel like purple bot lane has a disadvantage. And I love the fact that TT and HA are horizontal.

And it addresses some of the balance issues with dragon/baron pits.
I prefer a horizontal map as well. We have tested it internally and we hit a bunch of problems with it. It lost the feeling of SR, and there were some technical problems. I don't think it is an unsolvable problem, but it would probably require a pretty huge rework. Rotating the map is not something on our radar right now.


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GodKilleR 999

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
I prefer a horizontal map as well. We have tested it internally and we hit a bunch of problems with it. It lost the feeling of SR, and there were some technical problems. I don't think it is an unsolvable problem, but it would probably require a pretty huge rework. Rotating the map is not something on our radar right now.
A huge rework wouldn't be so bad.


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Sabrestrike

Senior Member

04-02-2014

The biggest problem I have is the arbitrary benefit red/purple side gets on dragon entrance and that blue gets on Baron pit.

It would be nice if there were symmetrical entrances for both objectives for both blue and red side.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
I prefer a horizontal map as well. We have tested it internally and we hit a bunch of problems with it. It lost the feeling of SR, and there were some technical problems. I don't think it is an unsolvable problem, but it would probably require a pretty huge rework. Rotating the map is not something on our radar right now.
What about a halfway angle between the two?

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Anyways, while it isn't something I usually see, I would like it if SR gave a small "consolation prize" of 3 gold if you failed to last-hit a minion--a pittance relative to the bonuses of CSing. This could also be used to make the Utility tree less about duo lane supports' economy and more about...well, utility effects other than duo lane supports' economy, which could spice up some of the other roles if the utility tree gained sufficiently...juicy...new effects.


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