Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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Zileas

VP of Game Design

12-08-2010
185 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLTbagger View Post
Would piping hot pizza be considered a false choice? You either sit there starving and waiting for it to cool down or you burn your tongue.

And I always thought Chinese food having rice and chopsticks was an anti-combo.

And that guy at work eating a tuna sandwich and stinking up the whole place. Just eat a ham sandwich or something. Anti-fun > fun.
Yes, but food design is not game design. Food anti-pattenrs include such things as don't use transfats to cook fish, etc.


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Kithas48

Senior Member

12-08-2010

honestly I dont play taric at all but I got him in an ARAM earlier and dazzle really struck me as odd.
its stats are based on its range, if theyre close it does really low dmg and they are stunned for longer but if theyre far away the stun is shorter and the damage is higher, this seems like a really hard choice to make in the heat of a battle and was honestly frustrating.
any comments zil?

btw kidos for taking all the time to answer things on this thread, you're awesome!


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Nukemouse

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Senior Member

12-08-2010

One thing i have to ask, does anyone over level 20 really not know every single champion's abilities?
Everyone i know does.
Everyone i have gone up against since then does.
Beyond obvious stupidly complex abilities and champions the Burden of Knowledge is counteracted by Phreak's champion spotlights, the "A new champion Approaches" posts and just reading the abilities in the store page.
It takes less than 2 minutes to do these things and learn that rupture only affects moving targets.
It seems as though only very low levels would not read these things, and having a popup with a new champion's abilities when you log in (Like the message it has appeared in the store) would counter that too.


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NetherWitch

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Just a comment on the anti-fun design theory

As a fellow designer I'd have to say it is
1. Not very well implemented in the game (It's true, if the way you describe this theory is applied to half the abilities in the game, they wouldn't pass.
2. anti-fun abilities can be quite fun for both sides, and increase game action creating a more enjoyable game

My point is that by trying to reduce anti-fun in game asset qualities and applying the burden of knowledge principle, we get champions and meta games which are anti-fun and very linear.

I am also very tired from exams... and too addicted to this game to care, as most LOL players probably are ...we'll play it anyways cause its addicting T_T

I suggest you guys play more FPS games and apply the knowledge Y_Y


Thanks for stuffs,
Random Internet Dweller


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

12-09-2010
186 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kithas48 View Post
honestly I dont play taric at all but I got him in an ARAM earlier and dazzle really struck me as odd.
its stats are based on its range, if theyre close it does really low dmg and they are stunned for longer but if theyre far away the stun is shorter and the damage is higher, this seems like a really hard choice to make in the heat of a battle and was honestly frustrating.
any comments zil?

btw kidos for taking all the time to answer things on this thread, you're awesome!
Either way you get a stun, which is key. It is a battle cleric spell -- you can close, or you can do more damage close. I think it's OK as a design, the pattern is pretty clear, and it makes sense for his role.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

12-09-2010
187 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukemouse View Post
One thing i have to ask, does anyone over level 20 really not know every single champion's abilities?
Everyone i know does.
Everyone i have gone up against since then does.
Beyond obvious stupidly complex abilities and champions the Burden of Knowledge is counteracted by Phreak's champion spotlights, the "A new champion Approaches" posts and just reading the abilities in the store page.
It takes less than 2 minutes to do these things and learn that rupture only affects moving targets.
It seems as though only very low levels would not read these things, and having a popup with a new champion's abilities when you log in (Like the message it has appeared in the store) would counter that too.
Burden of knowledge is a cost we bear. The lower the cost, the more people reach a point of strategic engagement in the game, which is more fun and less frustrating. Aids can reduce that burden.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

12-09-2010
188 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetherWitch View Post
Just a comment on the anti-fun design theory

As a fellow designer I'd have to say it is
1. Not very well implemented in the game (It's true, if the way you describe this theory is applied to half the abilities in the game, they wouldn't pass.
I said that in the thread, and I also said that these are trade-offs. It's OK to take them if you get something in return. But certainly, we don't follow them all the time, and we have some straight up bad designs in our game.

Quote:
2. anti-fun abilities can be quite fun for both sides, and increase game action creating a more enjoyable game

My point is that by trying to reduce anti-fun in game asset qualities and applying the burden of knowledge principle, we get champions and meta games which are anti-fun and very linear.
I honestly have no idea what you are saying here ;p

Quote:
I am also very tired from exams... and too addicted to this game to care, as most LOL players probably are ...we'll play it anyways cause its addicting T_T

I suggest you guys play more FPS games and apply the knowledge Y_Y
We play plenty of FPS games. I'd say that tf2 operates under some pretty similar principles.


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Holy Malevolence

Senior Member

12-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, but food design is not game design. Food anti-pattenrs include such things as don't use transfats to cook fish, etc.
Celery is anti-fun.
You end up with less carbs than you started with, which one wouldn't know when eating it.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

12-09-2010
189 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMalignance View Post
Celery is anti-fun.
You end up with less carbs than you started with, which one wouldn't know when eating it.
but it tastes good...


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Malzahearty Soup

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Recruiter

12-09-2010

Celery carries peanut butter to victory.